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Old October 12, 2000, 09:37 PM   #1
Ledbetter
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Join Date: February 23, 2000
Location: California USA
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Greetings,

I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to the ethics of not chasing down a wounded varmint (Raccoon, possum, coyote, etc.) for a second shot if the first didn't kill. Shot a raccoon in the back yard last week (.22 CB) and it made it over the fence and ran away. (Kind of limped/flopped away.) Me, I didn't go after it. It was 3 am.

Am I morally bankrupt?

Ledbetter
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Old October 12, 2000, 10:10 PM   #2
Art Eatman
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I'm guessing from your use of CB caps that you're in an "urban environment", as they say. If so, you could easily have found more trouble in the chase than by staying home.

To a certain extent, regardless of the particular cartridge or the environs, why bother to shoot the raccoon, in the first place? It ain't "morally bankrupt" so much, generally, as needless--unless you're protecting a garden or some such.

I have a couple of raccoons who come up on my porch at night. They "Clang!" an alarm, which wakes me up, so I turn on the porch lights and tap on the window and watch them. They get nervous, and then hunger for the bait overcomes their caution. I tap some more; they get spooked; hunger; etc., etc.

Sometimes I get fed up with nightly reruns, so I charge out, screaming and yelling. That usually makes for a couple of weeks of peace and quiet...

Now, were I farming or gardening, I'd have a different attitude. Same for my quail--Wiley Coyote and I compete for the quail, so he loses.

Anyway, if there is any point to all this, I'd say that you need to think a bit more about what cartridge you use, and what for.

Regards, Art
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Old October 12, 2000, 11:01 PM   #3
El Rojo
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I think it is more morally corrupt to not be able to kill the animal in one shot. Of course we are all guilty at times. The racoon will get over it, don't lose to much sleep on this one. There are more racoons in the sea. Oh wait, no there isn't. Nevermind.
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Old October 13, 2000, 12:28 PM   #4
MountainGun44
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Do your best to kill quickly. You owe that to any living creature. That is what separates us from animals- the desire to not inflict suffering.

Everyone falls short of this goal at times.
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Old October 13, 2000, 12:52 PM   #5
BadMedicine
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>That is what separates us from animals- the desire to not inflict suffering.
[/quote]

I have no doubt that you mean good, but I think that you've terribly misquoted someone.

Some people actually want to inflict suffering. Animals have no desire to inflict injury either. What would one animals suffering benefit anothers? They simply want to eat and live, and if another animal suffers/dies becaus of it, they have no opinion. All they know is that they live another day.
What seperates us from the animals is the abuility to make weighted opinions. i.e. decide what consequences our actions will have and then weigh them aganst the possible out come. A deer sees a predator, and it runs. why? it don't know, but for 100,000 years deer have done the same thing, and it's been working out for them. About 95% of what any animal (humans excluded) does is instinct. It comes naturally to them, and they do it without a seconds hesitation. The other five is the animals actual thought process, inhereted genes (maybe mommy and daddy weren't too brght either), and different factors, weather, couriosity, etc.

As far as making a clean kill, do your best, but I wouldn't have chased that coon at 3am. Maybe a neighbors dog ate him since he' *not the fastest car on the lot* anymore. We used to get coons in our yard in WA. We'd use our bows to shoot at them. Never got one, but I think you could pin one to the ground long enought to get to it

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Old October 13, 2000, 02:10 PM   #6
Ledbetter
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Gentlepersons,

Thanks for your replies. I have killed three that I know of with one CB shot in the chest or neck. I use a Streamlight Scorpion in one hand and a laser-equipped Ruger MkII in the other. If the shot isn't right, or there's no appropriate backstop, I don't take it.

I should say that I am acting to protect the fish and plants in my garden pond, which raccoons and possums love to play in and treat as their buffet. My wife hates finding half-eaten fish so much that she bags and disposes of the varmint corpses herself. Only one of the reasons I love her.

Regards to all,

Ledbetter
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Old October 13, 2000, 07:58 PM   #7
PDshooter
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Good point,MountainGun44. We once jumped a coyote out in SD,We were heading back to town. The sun was starting to set, we had the head lights on, came over a small hill in the road. There in the middle of the road was MR Coyote. Well the brakes slam on(Dirt Road) We bail out with our SKS Blazing. We must haved fired 20rds+. I heard a load yelp and saw MR Coyote running on three legs! I must say I felt a little funny that night, that we didn't get a clean kill. He was at least 100yds away when we first saw him. And when the last shot fired he must have been a mile away, well maybe?
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Old October 13, 2000, 09:22 PM   #8
OkieGentleman
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If you are trying to keep varmints out of various areas try this.

First find the neighborhood geek 14 year old and tell him you want him to build you a remote controlled high voltage discharge unit.

This is a 12 volt circuit unit connected to an older 6 volt car coil unit.

This, tied to an bare wire that is insulated from the ground, will put a racoon about 10 ft in the air and learning to fly very quickly. Because it is remote controlled they never learn when to tell if it is on.

This unit properly built will put out about 150K volts at no amps (amps kill).

A neighbor built one for his roses and waited till the local hound started to pee on his roses before he turned it on. The dog would cross the street to go by his house after that. It did not hurt the dog permanently, but he NEVER peed on those roses again.

If your local builder needs more info e-mail me.
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Old October 13, 2000, 09:29 PM   #9
rr41mag
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Okie, I gotta know how to build one of those!!!! I live out in the country where there are no leash laws. I can't keep trash in a can. HELP!!! I don't want to shoot any dogs/cats yet I just want to keep them out.




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Old October 15, 2000, 08:25 PM   #10
Big Bunny
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Ledbetter...your tender conscience does you proud. Fine thoughts indeed.
We all "miss" sometimes.To say we don't is fooling ourselves.
I would say 'don't worry about it', anyway the 'coon was probably running on adrenaline and would soon drop under shock.

But the wild is tough...an injured animal knows the score...it is part of the scheme of things. A wounded animal is predated pretty quickly around here, [especially any birds by red foxes or hawks.]

But I know how you feel.Ethics and pride is involved.

But you imagine how I felt- when in the same urban environment as you, but in OZ under the treat of a $15,000 fine and /or 6 months in jail AND 10 year ban on firearms ownership for "discharging a firearm in a public place" -I used a 2" Winch low velocity(5 gn Green Dot- Winch magnum primer, standard shot capsule - 'safe in my gun only').410 shotgun with 3/4OZ #10s (BRIT)- lazer sighted to "frighten off" pest european brown rats on my 1,500m2 block near here at abt 15 foot range on a stake-out with bread bait near the big store-shed.[I don't like poison and the smell of dead rats make my family ill.]

Well the report was a "slap" sound out of a 24" barrel single shot .410.

All OK so far and no neighbour complaints yet...but...

...It killed the first rat stone dead with its legs still running uselessly in the air.... I couldn't believe it and still really can't fron such a puny load out of a "whimp" shottie.

Got no rats now though - as all 7 went the same way as the first for the cost of 8c per shot(56c all up...cheaper than poison too and more fun!).



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If we shooting sportspersons don't hang together... we will all hang separately !
Never knock another's different shooting interest or discipline...REMEMBER we are all but leaves on the same tree of freedom.
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Old October 15, 2000, 08:27 PM   #11
Big Bunny
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Sorry.... that should have been 1/2Oz of
Brit #10s {not 3/4}.

:
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Old October 17, 2000, 02:39 AM   #12
Jeff Thomas
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The only 'varmints' I go after are rabbits. One shot, one kill ... head shots with an air rifle. But, I have made a few bad shots.

When I can follow-up on my own property, in privacy, then that is what I do. But, I'm not going to charge through the neighborhood looking for a wounded rabbit ... that would be idiotic, possibly cause a panic, and get me involved in some long conversations that I choose to avoid.

And, I feel very guilty whenever I have only wounded a rabbit, and not made a clean kill. It has caused me to (1) become a better shot, (2) learn to pass on the 'iffy' shots, and (3) pass on the long shots.

Silly examples, perhaps, but I think this has made me a better hunter. And, I have to live with myself ... my own ethics require the decency of a quick kill. I don't like hearing me lecture and swear at myself.

Take care. Regards from AZ
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Old October 18, 2000, 08:07 PM   #13
tatters
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Join Date: October 16, 1999
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I don't like for anything to suffer, human, varmint, whatever. I feel a little bad when I get a bad shot in on a groundhog or squirrel. The coyotes around here will make quick work of a wounded animal.
Do I feel bad over a miss or wounding? Yes.
Do I feel bad for long? No.

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