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Old May 24, 2005, 08:30 PM   #1
Harry Bonar
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die settings for sizing

Dear Reloaders:
Recently got 9.3X62 die set made by Lyman. However the instructions are like most die sets; dangerous.
In sizing most die manufacturers assume that their dies are made so that if you want to full length resize simply put the ram at its highest point with shell-holder in and screw die down with firm contact with top of shell-holder (all but carbide insert dies) in other words so that the shell holder goes in contact with bottom of sizing die when sizing.
This does several things:
It doesn't take into consideration the depth of the shell-holder. It sizes the case (supposedly) to saami dms.'
What if you have a rifle that just almost closes on a no-go guage?
If you size a case this way you will, even in a properly headspaced rifle, stretch the cae head anbout .004 each shot. After about 4 reloadings you may have incipient case head failure due to the repeated stretching! You will notice you need to trim more often!
I set my die in resizing up from the shell holder about an eighth of a turn and size a case. The case probably will not let the bolt close on it in the rifle with the striker mechanism removed! Then I keep coming down until I can just FEEL the bolt close on the resized case. Then it is full length sized for that particular rifle; each rifle, even of the same caliber will be slightly different!!
This also benefits the weapon in that the case on firing doesn't SLAM the head back into the bolt head and locking lugs causing set-back in a marginally hard reciever.
Harry B.
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Old May 24, 2005, 09:11 PM   #2
Smokey Joe
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Backing off the FL sizing die

Harry--Couldn't you accomplish the same result with less hassle simply by using a neck-sizing die? I neck-size-only all my cases for bolt actions--seems to work as you describe.
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Old May 25, 2005, 05:12 AM   #3
vinconco
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Use a Stoney Point Cartridge headspace gauge and size the case to fit the individual chamber.
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Old May 25, 2005, 06:21 AM   #4
MADISON
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Special NECK SIZING DIES
I E-Mailed RCBS on December 12, 2004 and received the following response on December 15, 2004.

From an old #8 Speer Reloading Manual. You and other equipment manufacturers sell special NECK SIZING dies. Does this still apply to your equipment?

Neck Sizing is the term applied to the process of sizing only the neck of a case, with a special die which doesn’t touch the shoulder or body of the case. Neck sizing does eliminate excessive working of the case shoulder and body but, also, may size the neck off-center and leave the body of the case too large to chamber. A better way to reduce excessive working of the case body and shoulder metal is to use a full length sizing die but, use it so it only sizes partially. To do this, the full length sizing die is backed out of the tool so that the shoulder is not touched by the die. This preserves the important head and shoulder dimension and still sizes the neck normally. The body of the case centers the neck in the die and is sized enough to make chambering fairly easy in a bolt action.
Back the die off at least 1/16th of an inch [About one complete turn.]
Many shooters adjust their dies so that only half of the neck is sized. This leaves enough tension to hold the bullet securely for target or varment shooting

The RCBS “Ask the Expert Forum’s response was:
Yes, the necksizers only size the neck of the cases. And yes, there can be run-out after necksizing as there is nothing to support the base of the case - it just sizes the neck. AS FOR PARTIAL SIZING -- Many of our customers choose to do this - but, it is trial and error and sometimes the chamber v.s. die fit does not allow the reloader to partial size - they will not chamber afterwards.
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Old May 25, 2005, 07:52 AM   #5
JB in SC
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I have used the Redding bushing type neck sizing die and the body sizing die. Neck sizing every loading and occasionally body sizing. Their body sizing die does not touch the shoulder of the case.

As Mr. Bonar states, moving the shoulder back substantially can cause some unwanted results. I've seen primer flattening and misfires occur only due to the shoulder being moved back too far.
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Old May 25, 2005, 02:48 PM   #6
Zekewolf
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Ever try using a Wilson case gage to set up your sizing die? It works as designed!
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Old May 26, 2005, 10:52 PM   #7
Bullet94
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You might try this -

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/...83X&type=store
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Old May 27, 2005, 07:30 PM   #8
Harry Bonar
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die setting

Dear Reloaders:
I tried neck-sizing, back in the days of the good old "tong Tool." What I found, even with a press, was that after neck-sizing several times the case got elongated from not full length sizing that the bolt would close hard even with anealing the necks.
Maybe I was doing something wrong but that's my experience - I like full length sizing so that the shoulder of the case is just barely touched assuring a constant feel on the bolt and zero headspace. And, I realize that this way your dies are only set for THAT rifle! Anyway, thanks for the thougts! Harry B.
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Old May 27, 2005, 10:22 PM   #9
Wildalaska
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Here is my experience...


Right now I reload for 6.5x55 and 308..

The 6.5 loads are fired in either an M41B swede sniper, or an M38 swede or an M94 swede. Chamber dimensions on all of these guns are generous (especially on the M41B)..in fact, it has been my experience that many swede surplus guns will close on US no go gauges and be absolutely safe to shoot (not to digress, need, a different thread on this). Any way, I use Lapua cases. I neck sized on the loads for the M41, trimmed em once, annealed after the 6th loading which was proably unecessary. On about the 12 load, I dtermined it was time to trim again, so I full legnth sized, trimmed and now i use those cases (2x so far) for the other two swedes.

In other words, I neck size for one gun and FL size for the other two. I now have loaded the same set of lapua cases 14x, and I think I can get a few more out of them.

Meanwhile, Im starting another run of neck sized cases for the M41B (I shoot it more than the other ones)

For the 308, I am only neck sizing for the steyr ssg......I am again using lapua cases.

In neck sizing for the 308, I am using a Hornday bushing die. I polish the hell; out of the expander ball before each loading (using flitz). I also not only tumble now, but wash the cases and scrub out the necks whick I lube extensively.

I am swithing to a carbide button and Redding type S bushing die for the 6.5..I have been using a Hornady to date.


WildkeepcasesseparatekenAlaska
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Old May 28, 2005, 08:57 AM   #10
JB in SC
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Wilddon'twantoheartheexpandersquealalaska,

You will love the Redding carbide button, doesn't stretch necks. Meant to state in my earlier post the Redding Body die doesn't touch the neck (instead of shoulder), it will bump the shoulder back and size the body.

JB
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Last edited by JB in SC; May 28, 2005 at 05:34 PM.
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Old May 28, 2005, 09:24 AM   #11
Smokey Joe
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WildIgotasolutionforyourexpanderballproblemAlaska:

Try the Lee Collet Die system--it doesn't use an expander ball at all. And as a side benefit, it only works the brass once each sizing, not twice. A regular die squeezes the brass down too far (one working) then pulls the expander ball through to size correctly (two workings). A collet die sizes the brass with one squeeze on a mandrel and that's it.

I've used this kind of a die for many years in .30-'06 and the brass tends to last until it dies of old age, or the primer pockets wear too much, or some such.

No friction used in the sizing process, so brass cleanliness is not such an issue. I tumble my used brass with corncob to knock off the worst of the crud, then go ahead and reload.

Of course the brass is segregated by lot and for each rifle.

I do find that I'm getting better results both in accuracy and in reloading, by using brand-new high quality brass. Have started buying new lots of brass and using it; have mostly stopped reloading free range pick-ups, and I think the results are worth the added expense.

Still can't keep myself from scrounging brass @ the range, but now almost all of it goes for scrap brass--which sells nicely to the outfit that also buys my Al beverage cans.
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Old May 28, 2005, 01:08 PM   #12
Zekewolf
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Harry, your "even with annealing the necks" doesn't relate to this thread. Of course, you have to occasionally f.l. size brass that's been neck-sized, simply to bump the shoulder. It's not that complicated...really.

I second the recommendation for the Lee Collet Die Set. (But you still might have to bump the shoulder every-now-and-then.)

If you use a Wilson (or other brand) case gage for setting up the f.l. sizing die, you'll know that your brass is in spec.
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