The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 7, 2000, 02:51 PM   #1
Field-dressed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 2000
Location: Alaska
Posts: 148
Or am I reading too much into recent threads? IMHO, new hunters should not attempt big game hunting with pistol calibers. There's a reason that .30 caliber hunting rifles have always been popular: they kill game cleanly and reliably. They'll often do the job even if a hunter botches the shot and doesn't quite put it through the boiler room. Hunters have an ethical responsibility to quickly and cleanly dispatch game. I see too much risk of wounding loss associated with under-gunning. Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with hunting with pistols - I hunt deer with my 44 mag. But new hunters must become proficient and knowledgable in shot placement and ballistics before they should attempt to use thier plinkers for more serious business: killing live animals. Call me old school but I think it's better to go out with too much bullet than not enough. Hell, you can use big game hunting as a reason to go out and buy a new rifle. The last thing I want to do is turn off new hunters, but use the right tool for the job.

Flame on, Dudes!
Field-dressed is offline  
Old September 7, 2000, 04:53 PM   #2
LoneStar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 10, 1999
Location: Houston, Texas USA
Posts: 259
I see kinda the opposite around here (Texas). Lot's of guys using 7mm Mags, .300's and .338's for deer that might, MIGHT get close to 100 lbs - soaking wet.

Of course you can't make 'em too dead, but too much recoil makes for poor shooting. No amout of power can correct a poorly placed shot.

Pick the right tool for the job.
LoneStar is offline  
Old September 7, 2000, 08:31 PM   #3
CD1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 2000
Posts: 300
Field dressed,

Amen. Bring enough gun, and PRACTICE enough to do it quick and clean. The hunt should be the challenge, not the kill.
CD1 is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 12:19 AM   #4
Robert the41MagFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 1999
Posts: 1,233
Maybe we should have mandatory proficiency testing, to see who is qualified to hunt with a handgun. Or even who can hunt at all. Save the poor animals from suffering. Let HCI and PETA in on the idea too and have the program administered by the federal government. Gore will appoint the panel.

Robert
Robert the41MagFan is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 11:39 AM   #5
Matt VDW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 1999
Posts: 1,315
I would be glad to use a .30-06 rifle for my deer hunting, but that's illegal in Ohio. My choices are a bow, a crossbow, a muzzleloader, or a handgun. I've chosen the handgun because I do lots of handgun shooting anyway, whereas I've never shot any of the other weapons.
Matt VDW is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 12:02 PM   #6
BadMedicine
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 863
Robert, I hope you're kidding, but I can't really tell. All I know is: I would rather you shoot me through the heart, then to be pulled down and eaten alive by a pack of wild dogs
BadMedicine is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 03:48 PM   #7
Dagny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2000
Location: Galt's Gulch
Posts: 390
I thought Matt was kidding about no rifles for deer hunting in Ohio. He's not. http://centralohio.thesource.net/Fra...nov26/tag.html
Dagny is offline  
Old September 8, 2000, 05:48 PM   #8
Field-dressed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 2000
Location: Alaska
Posts: 148
Aw c'mon Robert, you know what I'm talking about. Its a personal responsibility to get good at killing things. If you think I'm a weenie because I don't like to see animals suffer as I'm killing them, so be it. I've seen wolves feeding on a moose while still on the hoof and I felt kinda bad for that poor moose. But to put things in perspective, when the Senator from Kalifornia fell down the stairs and broke her leg, I didn't feel her pain at all.

But let's look at the bigger picture of hunter incompetence. The average nation-wide wounding loss on big game is estimated at 25-30%. How long before the anti's start shoving that back in our face? Hunter educators take the wounding loss problem seriously because of what the anti's will do with it. You're not far off on the testing thing either. Most states already require hunter education, Alaska will too and will include proficiency testing. Hunter education can reduce wounding loss but it still comes down to the individual being able to get off a good killing shot with the right weapon. Love that puker smilie.

Matt VDW,
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I do lots of handgun shooting anyway[/quote]
Good choice, if you haven't tried it yet your gonna love it.
Field-dressed is offline  
Old September 9, 2000, 03:42 AM   #9
Robert the41MagFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 1999
Posts: 1,233
Spend lots of time in the woods. Usually I'm the first person in come spring time and turn the lights out in the winter. Go deep in the woods were most people don't. Down those 2000 feet ravines, covered with thick bushes and downed trees. That is where you find most of the dead carcasses. The wasted animals. It does make me sick. But it is our responsibility to shame ourselves, within reason.

When someone tells you the stories of hunting large deer with lightweight calibers like 223 or 22-250, we should reply by saying that it is unethical to do so. A friend that has never really learned basic hunting skill, takes up handgun hunting with a 357 Magnum. We should tell them that they are over their heads. But we can't paint with a broad brush.

Some guys hunt deer that are the size of dogs and using a 223 is OK. I am a expert hunter, harvesting world class deer (250+) with a 357 Magnum is not difficult at all. Have a former member from my target shooting group that successfully hunted a javelina with a 9mm. He is a expert hunter and outstanding shooter. The common denominator in all these situations is shot placement, shot placement and more shot placement.

Yes, there are guns, cartridges and situations that simply will not work when hunting a particular game. And it is unethical to even try. We know exactly what I'm talking about. The long range pistol shot, the shot with the bow that you never practice for and the "neck shot" with the lightweight cartridge. The list goes on and on. But lets face reality here. Besides the harvest, we are in it for the sport.

That it, "Sport"! Whether it is the thrill of the chase or the kill. That's why we are all here. We like going into the woods, enjoy our surrounding, the environment and kill game. For some, me included, rifle hunting is boring and does not satisfy my appetite of the chase.

I want to get close in, see how they react when they pickup human scent for the first time. Then looking around, but see nothing. You watch them carefully, see how they move about the forest floor without even making a sound. You just sit back, relax and be cool, but can't. What has been in the works for months is coming down. Right now! you have lost sleep over this situation over and over again.

Slowly picking up your weapon and just wait. You can feel it coming, but you hear nothing. It is completely silent. He is getting closer, now inside 20 yards. You can see his face, his eyes. Those dark eyes! Trying not to look too deep, you change focus to his body. Stroking your finger on the trigger, you find your mark and fire. Bang!

One thing about the harvest of big game. The more you do it, the easier it gets. With that increasing ease, you search for more exciting methods. More difficulty. After all, it is only sport.

Robert



[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited September 09, 2000).]
Robert the41MagFan is offline  
Old September 9, 2000, 01:45 PM   #10
BadMedicine
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 863
I think that You can't hunt with rifle in Illinois either, or atleast alot of it. It was like that when we lived there, but I was ytoo young to hunt deer. A lot of people use shotgun with slugs, and my dad used bow and arrow.
I think it's two broad of a judgment to say that a 22-250, or .223 is an unethical cartridge to shoot "large deer." That's just too much of a generalization. It may be too much for some hunter, or some circumstances. But some people can take these guns and nail a prarie dog at 1000yrds, and if they can do that, I have no-doubt that they can blow the heart/lung area out the other side a deer inside of say, 200yrds. These guns carry a small bullet, that can easily be swayed by wind or brush, but they are Very Deadly, at very long ranges, and can be used ethically in many. Some people who would'nt think twice to throw lead at a prarie dog at 700 yrds, but would say it's unethical to do so to a deer. Makes me wonder...
BadMedicine is offline  
Old September 9, 2000, 10:44 PM   #11
Ron Ankeny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2000
Posts: 316
Around here (central Wyoming) the trend is to over gun. The .300 and .338 Ulta Mags are selling like hot cakes as are the 30-378 Sako rifles. Guys would be better off with a .30-06 or .270 IMHO.

As for the 22-250 it is one of my favorite cartridges. They are legal to hunt deer with in Montana but not here. I use the 63 grain Sierra a lot along with the lighter bullets. Fact is, there are no bullets available that are of proper construction to consitently provide for a humane kill. I think using a 22-250 is a bit unethical, but that's just my opinion.

As for the 1000 yard shots at p-dogs and the 700 yard shots at deer, poppy cock. Apples and oranges and fool hardy to boot. I had the opportunity to attend the benchrest nationals this year and the best shooters in the world lay no claim to being able to pop a p-dog at a thousand yards. Kinda like the 25 lb. walleye or the 40 inch mule deer...
Ron Ankeny is offline  
Old September 10, 2000, 10:47 AM   #12
SnakeLover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2000
Location: Mechanicsville, VA USA
Posts: 302
I own several rifles, but I usually only hunt with one, my .338 Browning A Bolt. I've used it when hunting for everything from elk/moose down to my antelope hunt last weekend in Wyoming. Unfortunately, I don't have enough time to shoot all my guns consistently. So instead, I spend most my time with this one gun, and am more confident with it because of this. I keep my shots within my guns and my limit, and if that means a tag goes unfilled, so be it. It's about the hunt for me, not the kill.
SnakeLover is offline  
Old September 10, 2000, 05:02 PM   #13
BadMedicine
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 863
Ron Ankney, I've never seen anyone shoot a prarie dog at more than a couple hundred yards, but they're are people who do, and who have. If you ever visit the Varminter.com web page forums, there is a guy in there called Larry Gene Pate-Prarie Dog Dundee. He *says* he has 2 confirmed 1000yrd Prarie dog. And has the certificates to prove it. (I haven't seen them, but he says it.) Just because I cannot make a shot at ranges like that I'm not going to say there are others who cannot. As for prarie dogs and deer being apples and oranges, In many aspects yes, but as far as shooting them at long ranges, no. One suffering animal is no better than another, even if you can eat deer, or they are bigger, That prarie dog isn't going to see much difference when he's draggin himself back into his hole by his front legs.
BadMedicine is offline  
Old September 13, 2000, 03:21 PM   #14
Bruegger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 14, 1999
Location: Indiana
Posts: 637
I guess I should have posted here what I posted in the Art of the Rifle forum about Elmer Keith's experience with a dog and his 8 bore. http://www.thefiringline.com/NonCGI/...ML/003827.html
Bruegger is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08853 seconds with 9 queries