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Old February 28, 2005, 12:35 PM   #1
Handy
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High quality, subcompact DA/SA guns?

Talking about true DA/SA guns with decockers: What's available?

So far I've found P99C, SW99C, CS9, CZ Rami or the HK P2000SK, if available non-LEM. (I realize the Rami doesn't have a decocker, but it can at least be decocked.)

It must be 9mm Luger or bigger.

What am I missing in a gun that is both light and small with a decocker? The point of the exercise is to beat my flat 27 oz. P7, so the gun must be smaller than a typical 8 round single stack 9mm - so a Sig, Ruger or the like isn't going to do it.

Thanks.
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Old February 28, 2005, 01:29 PM   #2
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One of my new toys is an S&W 4013 chief's special. Its compact, small, accurate. Carries 8 rounds of .40 S&W in the magazine. Plus when you hit the safety it decocks. Great little gun. (Plus I bought it for only $300!)
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Old May 6, 2005, 02:25 PM   #3
MoW
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Handy, just curious

High quality, subcompact DA/SA guns?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Talking about true DA/SA guns with decockers: What's available?

So far I've found P99C, SW99C, CS9, CZ Rami or the HK P2000SK, if available non-LEM. (I realize the Rami doesn't have a decocker, but it can at least be decocked.)

It must be 9mm Luger or bigger.

What am I missing in a gun that is both light and small with a decocker? The point of the exercise is to beat my flat 27 oz. P7, so the gun must be smaller than a typical 8 round single stack 9mm - so a Sig, Ruger or the like isn't going to do it.

Thanks.

What did you end up getting? Have you had the chance to handle the CS9? If so, what's the grip size for a subcompact--Thanks.
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Old May 6, 2005, 07:19 PM   #4
Moe Mentum
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CZ Rami, that would be my choice.
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Old May 6, 2005, 08:34 PM   #5
ScaryWoody
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Would Makarov fit this category?
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Old May 9, 2005, 10:21 AM   #6
Handy
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MoW,

I haven't gotten anything yet, but I'm reconsidering a Kahr. Their NYPD trigger is longer and heavier than the standard one, and may be enough like a tradition DAO to meet my safety concerns.


Scary, I specified 9mm Luger as a minimum for power, not diameter. 9mm Mak has quite a bit less punch.
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Old May 10, 2005, 11:32 AM   #7
Tony S45
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I like Duxman's choice.

I'm currently carrying a S&W 6906 but the S&W 908 or 3913 are single stack guns which will be a bit slimmer. S&W has made quite a few choices for carry in 9mm which have the firing mechanism that you stated you prefer. Check them out!
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Old May 10, 2005, 01:17 PM   #8
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The Bersa Thunder Compact 9 also de-cocks automatically upon hitting the safety, but it's not overly light. It's definitely not a 'sub'-compact, but I mention it because some of your proffered choices appear to be just 'compacts', not SUB-compacts. It's smaller and lighter than a P7 though, I believe.
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Old May 10, 2005, 02:19 PM   #9
OBIWAN
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Having breifly owned a Kahr P9, I cannot imagine why a longer or heavier trigger pull would be required...or desired.

Seriously...I would be more concerned with accidently shooting a DA revolver

Mine was shootable...but no liteweight...you know....when it actually fed the ammo like it was supposed to
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Old May 10, 2005, 02:23 PM   #10
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The CZ 75 PCR has a decocker and it is aluminium alloy which is light, about 25 oz. with 10 rounds. I prefer it over the Rami. Kahr has great dao guns, especially the PM9. The Smith & Wesson CS9 is also worth considering. All 9mm.

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Old May 10, 2005, 03:00 PM   #11
Handy
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Obiwan,

The current Kahr standard trigger pull is around 7 pounds. The current S&W revolver trigger pull is 10 to 12 pounds. The MK9 I had years ago was around 7 pounds. I can't imagine what was wrong with yours.

The NYPD trigger makes the pull more like a revolver.
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Old May 11, 2005, 09:23 AM   #12
OBIWAN
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I don't think anything was wrong with mine...other than not reliably feeding ammo

7 pounds and a fairly long (revolver like) pull sounds about right

I simply can't imagine accidently making that particular pistol go bang

But then...I seem to have to make a conscious effort to make my Glocks and 1911's go bang. The only handgun I have ever owned that surprised me was a S&W 29 in single action mode. DA was light...but the SA was SCARY.

In a training class back in the 90's, I actually had trouble shooting Vickie Farnams Kahr....I thought there was something wrong with it...I just kept pulling and pulling....took some getting used to that long stroke...had to shift my trigger finger


As always...YMMV
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Old May 11, 2005, 09:30 AM   #13
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Handy I don't get it. The Sig P225 is streamline as it gets and the P239 is too.
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Old May 11, 2005, 10:19 AM   #14
Handy
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Will, having owned a 225, I can tell you that it is larger than a P7 and actually bigger/wider than a 3913. A Kahr M is miniscule in comparison.
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Old May 11, 2005, 10:53 AM   #15
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Vote

My vote is for the P99 or P99c. Of course, I am biased. Available in 9mm or .40S&W. Heh, I'm starting to sound as rabid as you Glockers with my Walther recommendations. Great gun though!
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Old May 12, 2005, 02:08 AM   #16
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Any of the Para LDA series, Warthawg (.45ACP) being the smallest, the Carry, Companion, or TAC 4-which I've got but is a little on the larger side. All of which have that "Sweet Smooth Trigger" I'd say the Carry for smaller needs, anyway, all are chambered in .45 and average around 700-800 as per condition. Just my too bits
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Old May 12, 2005, 03:04 AM   #17
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Another vote for the Walther P99.
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Old May 12, 2005, 10:48 AM   #18
Duxman
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Thanks Tony!

As for the P99 fans...as I am one of you: I have a P99 in 40 S&W. As the full sized weapon - it has NO EQUAL. This weapon is amazing. Accurate, light, reliable, and easy to point and shoot.

The only issue I see is that it is a little too big for CC. Especially in the summer. Come fall and winter, I am definately going P99. With a coat on, this thing is unbeatable. The P99C version has issues: Some folks have stated that it is too small of a grip to hang on to: Especially when you have big hands. Uncomfortable to shoot. Again this is a personal preference.

Meanwhile the ASP's third generation cousin the 4013 is a fine weapon. Just big enough to be accurate and counter balance the recoil with its steel frame, yet small enough to conceal. I have not tried the 9mm version, but if its anything like the .40, its awesome.
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