Loading for My Springfield 45 ACP

Norman · December 9, 2004, 04:44 PM

I am having a 1911 gunsmith with 30 years experience fit a Kart match barrel to my springfield 1911. I have a Optima 2000 sight on the gun. When I load for my 22/250 I neck size, debur the primer flash hole, turn the outside neck, trim the case and uniform the primer pocket. In loading for the 45 ACP will I get a consederably more accurate load if I trim the cases, use the same manufacturer of brass (now I mix the brass) and maybe debur the flash hole and uniform the promer pocket. At least trim the case and use the same brass ? What do you think ? Norman

Jim Watson · December 9, 2004, 05:15 PM

Same lot of brass, deburred. I don't know if flash hole and primer pocket uniforming will help pistol accuracy. A primer pocket uniformer will help primer seating considerably, especially if you load on a Dillon which does not have a lot of leverage at that point in the cycle. I once cut some to rifle depth and they ran through my SDB like silk. Primers were seated deeeep, but the unlimited firing pin protrusion of a 1911 fired them very well.

I don't know about trimming .45 brass. I have read - not tested - that autopistol brass actually shortens with use, the expansion of the cylindrical case moves brass into diameter instead of length.

But you've got the gun.
Make up some batches of brass with different degrees of preparation and compare them.

Tim R · December 9, 2004, 06:10 PM

I've never trimmed a 45 ACP case in my life. If looking for accuracy, I mean match type, I would sort my manf. and then into year if I could. More importantly is finding the load combo that your pistol likes.

I've had good luck with 4.6 grs. of Bullesye with a 230 gr. lead round nose in a GI case. I use CCI primers. Might try Federal match primers one of these days.

alan · December 9, 2004, 07:42 PM

I shoot IPSC, which brings limitations, like making "major" power factor. Used to be 175, now 165.

Anyhow, in a 70 Series Government Model, and later on in a Kimber Classic Custom Target, with 200 grain H & G 68's, I used 5.2 grains of Red Dot for years. Muzzle Velocity was 900f/s, or essentially BALL EQUIVALENT. Primers have always been Winchester, unless I couldn't find them, then CCI. As to brass, never trimmed pistol brass. Cases I use are about the worst mess of various makes you are likely to come upon, flash holes are as they were when punched out, but the ammunition works, which is about all it has to do. It shoots straighter than can hold anyhow.

Uwe Jeffries · December 10, 2004, 04:05 PM

Trimming a .45ACP really is not needed. I shoot 4.5grains of Bullseye under a 200grain lead semi wadcutter.
On 25 yards it makes nice 3 inch groups.
I use a snug taper crimp.

grunewaj · December 10, 2004, 09:17 PM

I only know of one person who claims to trim pistol brass. In my experience, they tend to be shorter than the max length anyway. I also never clean primer pockets - since I load on a progressive press and I don't have access to the primer pocket between decapping and setting the primer. I don't know anybody who messes with the primer pocket (except for possibly the guy who trims). Actually, that's not true, I deburred the flash holes and uniformed the primer pockets for a bunch of cases for loading the Army bullsey load (185 Nosler JHP, 4.1 gr of VV310, Federal match primers). I figure if I'm spending that much to make the bullet, I would go all out

. I doubt it made any difference other than the blisters on my hand!

Normally I clean them and load them and that's all. They shoot pretty straight for me.

Good luck!

alan · December 11, 2004, 12:24 AM

At the close of a matter of fact post on reloading the 45 ACP cartridge, Grunewaj offered the following "signature piece", which by the way, strikes me as very much worth reading and thinking about. Of course, old Mr. Menkin usually had something interesting to offer.

Re the cleaning of primer pockets, used to do that when reloading 30-06 and .308 Win, as residue seemed to build up rapidly. Don't bother with handgun loads.

WESHOOT2 · December 11, 2004, 08:26 AM

I'd use same-make cases and skip the rest.

You WILL get better accuracy with all the things you mentioned, but it may be too small to notice. Flash-hole reaming is where I'd start......

Testing required: WST / Bullseye / Nitro 100 / 700X / N320......

grunewaj · December 11, 2004, 12:36 PM

alan,

[off topic]
Thanks for noticing! I used to collect quotes and this was about my favorites. By today's standard he would be known as a racist (which is sad - more for what it says about the general racial climate in the early 1900s), but on most things, I think he was on the right side of the issues. He was also against gun control, of course!

Glad you enjoyed it.

signal4l · May 3, 2005, 01:30 PM

I have used 4.5 g of 700x and either a 200gr swc or 230 g fmj for several years. I dont trim or sort my brass. The .45 acp is one of the easiest cartridges to load. This load has been quite accurate in my guns.

Mark whiz · May 3, 2005, 09:51 PM

I've never had to trim a taper-crimped case to date. And like others have said, pistol cases are usually short anyway. I have trimmed some roll-crimped cases, but just to clean them up - not because they were too long.

Out of habit, I routinely uniform primer pockets and flash holes on all my brass - but I have no evidence that it has improved my groups, but I'm sure it hasn't hurt them.

I really only worry about using the same batch of brass when I'm doing load workups - measureable groups mean more then than during any off-hand work anyway.

alan · May 3, 2005, 11:22 PM

grunewaj:

These sensitive days, Menkin likely would have been viewed as a racist. I don't know that he was, in his era a racist, however from what I've seen of his comments on a number of matters, he seemed more right than wrong.

December 9, 2004, 04:44 PM	#1
Norman Junior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 11	Loading for My Springfield 45 ACP I am having a 1911 gunsmith with 30 years experience fit a Kart match barrel to my springfield 1911. I have a Optima 2000 sight on the gun. When I load for my 22/250 I neck size, debur the primer flash hole, turn the outside neck, trim the case and uniform the primer pocket. In loading for the 45 ACP will I get a consederably more accurate load if I trim the cases, use the same manufacturer of brass (now I mix the brass) and maybe debur the flash hole and uniform the promer pocket. At least trim the case and use the same brass ? What do you think ? Norman

December 9, 2004, 06:10 PM	#3
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	I've never trimmed a 45 ACP case in my life. If looking for accuracy, I mean match type, I would sort my manf. and then into year if I could. More importantly is finding the load combo that your pistol likes. I've had good luck with 4.6 grs. of Bullesye with a 230 gr. lead round nose in a GI case. I use CCI primers. Might try Federal match primers one of these days. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

December 10, 2004, 04:05 PM	#5
Uwe Jeffries Junior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: Frankfurt-Germany Posts: 10	Trimming .45ACP Trimming a .45ACP really is not needed. I shoot 4.5grains of Bullseye under a 200grain lead semi wadcutter. On 25 yards it makes nice 3 inch groups. I use a snug taper crimp.

December 10, 2004, 09:17 PM	#6
grunewaj Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 133	I only know of one person who claims to trim pistol brass. In my experience, they tend to be shorter than the max length anyway. I also never clean primer pockets - since I load on a progressive press and I don't have access to the primer pocket between decapping and setting the primer. I don't know anybody who messes with the primer pocket (except for possibly the guy who trims). Actually, that's not true, I deburred the flash holes and uniformed the primer pockets for a bunch of cases for loading the Army bullsey load (185 Nosler JHP, 4.1 gr of VV310, Federal match primers). I figure if I'm spending that much to make the bullet, I would go all out . I doubt it made any difference other than the blisters on my hand! Normally I clean them and load them and that's all. They shoot pretty straight for me. Good luck! __________________ The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten, that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. -- H. L. Mencken

December 11, 2004, 08:26 AM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 12,927	bullseye I'd use same-make cases and skip the rest. You WILL get better accuracy with all the things you mentioned, but it may be too small to notice. Flash-hole reaming is where I'd start...... Testing required: WST / Bullseye / Nitro 100 / 700X / N320...... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

December 9, 2004, 05:15 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 9,673	Same lot of brass, deburred. I don't know if flash hole and primer pocket uniforming will help pistol accuracy. A primer pocket uniformer will help primer seating considerably, especially if you load on a Dillon which does not have a lot of leverage at that point in the cycle. I once cut some to rifle depth and they ran through my SDB like silk. Primers were seated deeeep, but the unlimited firing pin protrusion of a 1911 fired them very well. I don't know about trimming .45 brass. I have read - not tested - that autopistol brass actually shortens with use, the expansion of the cylindrical case moves brass into diameter instead of length. But you've got the gun. Make up some batches of brass with different degrees of preparation and compare them.

December 9, 2004, 07:42 PM	#4
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,656	I shoot IPSC, which brings limitations, like making "major" power factor. Used to be 175, now 165. Anyhow, in a 70 Series Government Model, and later on in a Kimber Classic Custom Target, with 200 grain H & G 68's, I used 5.2 grains of Red Dot for years. Muzzle Velocity was 900f/s, or essentially BALL EQUIVALENT. Primers have always been Winchester, unless I couldn't find them, then CCI. As to brass, never trimmed pistol brass. Cases I use are about the worst mess of various makes you are likely to come upon, flash holes are as they were when punched out, but the ammunition works, which is about all it has to do. It shoots straighter than can hold anyhow.

December 11, 2004, 12:24 AM	#7
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,656	At the close of a matter of fact post on reloading the 45 ACP cartridge, Grunewaj offered the following "signature piece", which by the way, strikes me as very much worth reading and thinking about. Of course, old Mr. Menkin usually had something interesting to offer. Re the cleaning of primer pockets, used to do that when reloading 30-06 and .308 Win, as residue seemed to build up rapidly. Don't bother with handgun loads.

December 11, 2004, 12:36 PM	#9
grunewaj Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 133	alan, [off topic] Thanks for noticing! I used to collect quotes and this was about my favorites. By today's standard he would be known as a racist (which is sad - more for what it says about the general racial climate in the early 1900s), but on most things, I think he was on the right side of the issues. He was also against gun control, of course! Glad you enjoyed it. __________________ The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten, that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. -- H. L. Mencken

May 3, 2005, 01:30 PM	#10
signal4l Member Join Date: May 3, 2005 Posts: 34	I have used 4.5 g of 700x and either a 200gr swc or 230 g fmj for several years. I dont trim or sort my brass. The .45 acp is one of the easiest cartridges to load. This load has been quite accurate in my guns.

May 3, 2005, 09:51 PM	#11
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	I've never had to trim a taper-crimped case to date. And like others have said, pistol cases are usually short anyway. I have trimmed some roll-crimped cases, but just to clean them up - not because they were too long. Out of habit, I routinely uniform primer pockets and flash holes on all my brass - but I have no evidence that it has improved my groups, but I'm sure it hasn't hurt them. I really only worry about using the same batch of brass when I'm doing load workups - measureable groups mean more then than during any off-hand work anyway. __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

May 3, 2005, 11:22 PM	#12
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,656	grunewaj: These sensitive days, Menkin likely would have been viewed as a racist. I don't know that he was, in his era a racist, however from what I've seen of his comments on a number of matters, he seemed more right than wrong.