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Old April 24, 2005, 04:43 PM   #1
Metal Head
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Problems shooting my new.45

I've shot lots of rifles and I have a Marlin .30-.30, BUT my new Ruger P90 .45 is a new animal to me. For one thing when I aim my rifle I put the target on the TIP of the end sight. The .45 seams to aim better if I put the end Dot ON the target and cover it. Is this normal for a handgun? I also have a bad tendence to pull the barrel downward just before or as I pull the trigger, so my shots are low. I need to work on that. Any suggestions??
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Old April 24, 2005, 05:54 PM   #2
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The ammo you're using will have a marked effect on the point of impact.
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Old April 24, 2005, 05:57 PM   #3
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I wouldn't think so at 25'.
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Old April 24, 2005, 06:16 PM   #4
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Ok...
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Old April 24, 2005, 06:54 PM   #5
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Metal,

My P97 is the same way. Front dot is right ON the target.

As for your flinch, you just need to practice at home by putting a coin on the end of the barrel and dry-fire the gun a LOT until you can do it easily without letting coin fall off. By doing this at home, you are training yourself mentally and you'll find it endlessly helpful at the shooting range. Have fun with your Ruger - it's a tough gun.
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Old April 24, 2005, 07:03 PM   #6
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Buy some snapcaps and practice by dry firing, its cheap and helps a lot.
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Old April 24, 2005, 07:07 PM   #7
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I found this on the net it describes my problem:

“Milking,” taken from the hand’s movement when milking a cow’s udder, occurs when the index finger closes on the trigger and the other fingers sympathetically close with it, changing the grasp and pulling the sights off target. Most commonly, this will pull the shot low and to the side of what you were aiming at. It is a function called “interlimb response.” When one finger closes, the other fingers want to close with it.

Also, what are snapcaps?????
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Old April 24, 2005, 07:20 PM   #8
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Most handguns are set for a point-of-aim shot, not a 6 o'clock hold, and they are usually sighted in for about 25 yards. If you are shooting at 25', the bullet is still on its way up to the point of the trajectory the sights are set for, and therefore hits low. The same thing would happen with a 9mm or some other caliber that has a higher velocity, but you wouldn't notice it as much because faster bullets mean longer, flatter trajectories. The .45 has a slow bullet and a looping trajectory, so the difference is more notable. If you ever take a 50 yard shot, you will probably notice your shots dropping in about 6 to 8 inches below your point of aim, as they have passed the midpoint of the trajectory and are on their way down.

Your problem with flinching and dragging the muzzle down is the bane of handgun shooters: recoil sensitivity. In training, I've found most shooters respond well to the old ball-and-dummy drills. This works easier with a revolver, but can be done with an auto if you have some commercially available dummy rounds or a buddy to help you. To do the drill, you load several mags from a pocket containing live rounds and dummies without looking, so you never know if you are getting a dummy or a live round. When shooting, sometimes you get a shot, sometimes a click. If flinching is your problem, when you get a click you will drag the muzzle down. As you continue, you will gradually stop flinching. Another way to do the drill is to have a buddy load for you, out of your sight. Sometimes he loads a round, sometimes not. When he hands you the gun, you fire and you get the same effect. This way is a bit time intensive, but you don't need to buy dummy rounds.

Starting handguns with a .45 is a little tough. Good luck.
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Old April 24, 2005, 07:22 PM   #9
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You are

Learning a new disclipline, and it requires that you receive a education relating to your new endeavors. Much help is available as are courses to assist you over/through some hurdles before you. A handgun is an entirely different animal then a rifle and shotgun. Distances will be very much limited to 25 yards and under, in fact for the first few sessions 10 yards are more then enough. Many things enter into satisfactory accurancy. A course or shooting school isn't out side the bounds of possibility, if you desire to shoot well rather quickly. Things such as recoil anticipation can cause low hits, Not just "milking". Seek help from a knowledgable shooter if available and practice as much as practical. Lastly enjoy you efforts.
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Old April 25, 2005, 10:52 AM   #10
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. . . and, by the way, it's a .45 ACP, not a .45 (entirely different round).
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Old April 25, 2005, 11:47 AM   #11
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I didn't know that. What's the differance and what does ACP stand for.
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Old April 25, 2005, 12:59 PM   #12
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Glad you asked.

The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) was developed for the US Army for Browning’s renowned 1911/1911A1 autoloader almost 100 years ago. Fundamentally (there are several exceptions to this generalization, but I’m trying to provide the “basics” is this reply), it is used in semiautomatic pistols. Normally, the .45 ACP has a mass of 180 to 230 grains and a muzzle velocity approximating 850 FPS. It epitomizes the “big, slow” school of handgun shooting; many individuals -- I am one -- feel it is the “standard of comparison” for all semiautomatic sidearms.

The .45 Colt (sometime erroneously called the .45 Long Colt) originates from the mid/late-1800s. It is a revolver round and the cartridge is considerably larger than the .45 ACP’s. Initially, it was the “peacemaker” of the Western frontier and was made famous is for its potency in single action revolvers (such as Colt’s Single Action Army model). Despite its age, it remains a very useful and viable revolver round, especially due to its flexibility. More specifically, at low-pressure loadings, it has ballistics similar to the .45 ACP P+ (for example, a 200 grain projectile with a muzzle velocity of 1100+ FPS). However, at its higher-pressure loadings (probably not suitable for many revolvers other than modern Rugers) the .45 Colt’s ballistics approximate the .44 magnum’s -- it is a real “stopper”.

Many people call the far-more-common semiautomatic round the “.45 Colt”, but as you can see, that is wrong and confusing, since they are two distinctly different cartridges.

You may want to check the TFL archives (under “Search”) for much greater and more detailed information. You may also want to review reloading manuals for sizes and the reloading/ballistic specifications applicable to these two rounds.
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Old April 25, 2005, 01:12 PM   #13
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Now that sounded like an educated answer. Thanks, now the you mention the .45 revolver cartridge it kinda clicked as to the differance. Thanks again.
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Old April 25, 2005, 01:19 PM   #14
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There are a number of items in pistol shooting that are very different than long guns. The platform is not nearly as stable amking accurate shooting harder. Another thing is that the bore axis is well above the point of support. This causes the muzzle to rotate upwards when fired. Faster ammunition often strikes lower on the target since there is not as much time for the gun to rotate upward before the bullet exits. Slower ammunition often strikes higher on the target for the same reason, more bore time allowing the gn to move further.
If you have never fired a handgun extensively you might consider getting a .22. The ammunition is cheaper then even handloads, adn it is an excellent way to learn the ins and outs of accurate pistol shooting before having to deal with the recoil of a larger gun.
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Old April 25, 2005, 01:47 PM   #15
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Snap caps are dummy rounds, sometimes with spring loaded primer sections. These are used so that the firing pin has something to hit. Most centerfire weapons can be dry fired without any problem, not the case with many rimfire pistols and rifles. Dryfiring these can cause firing pin damage. Most manufacturers will specify whether dryfiring will cause harm.
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Old April 25, 2005, 01:55 PM   #16
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dry fire your ruger, in double action. will greatly increase your grip strength and trigger finger control. take careful note as you are dryfiring how much the front sight moves. your goal is to have no movement at all during the trigger pull all the way until after the hammer drops.

spending the last week dryfiring my sig 229 has done wonders for how well i shoot with my kimber. i no longer pull my shots to the low left! nor do i heel them to the right! i rule!

you may also wish to rethink your shooting stance. if i try to use a weaver, i'm all over the place. i have to use isocoles if i want accuracy.
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Old April 25, 2005, 02:09 PM   #17
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I had a .357 S&W with a 8 3/8" barrel a LONG time ago and I don't remember having the problem I'm having now. Maybe I just need to get in some more shooting time with it.
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Old April 25, 2005, 02:34 PM   #18
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practise

this is what i found helped. practise your draw and learn where the gun naturally points when you do so. ive been working on this for months. eventually you dont use the sights anymore because you are so familiar with where the gun points. i pulled a 3 round 3/4" group on the range 2 weeks ago in the middle of the target's "face".
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Old April 25, 2005, 02:46 PM   #19
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When I started shooting I found that I was trying to tense my muscles too much to stabilize the pistol. Try putting the sights on target, then close your eyes for 10 seconds and see if they move. If so, make an effort to find a position that lets you hold the pistol steady while tensing as few muscles as possible (IMHO Weaver is best for this).
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Old April 27, 2005, 11:35 AM   #20
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I think the use of "Long Colt" was taken from the .38 Long Colt and just stuck to it's .45 caliber brother.

Learn more about calibers at
http://www.reloadbench.com/
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Old May 1, 2005, 06:07 PM   #21
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If you don't think that the type of ammo you use makes a difference even at 25 feet you got a lot to learn.You just blew a guy off with over 2500 posts who was trying to help?????????????
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Old May 1, 2005, 10:36 PM   #22
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All I said was "I wouldn't think so at 25'". I don't think that's blowing someone off. Who made you his caretaker anyway?
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