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Old May 22, 2000, 11:15 PM   #1
rancherman
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Location: new mexico
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i dont own any class III weapons but i am interested in doing so(someday).
i know about the 200.00 bux per weapons ect ect.
i was wondering if there is a legal way to get a full auto weapon with out the class III bull sh*t. i was told that drop in sears that are pre november 1981 are legal to buy and use without an ffl or a class III license, is this true?
thanks

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Old May 23, 2000, 02:47 AM   #2
blades67
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No this is not true! It is a good way to wind up in prison.

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[This message has been edited by blades67 (edited May 23, 2000).]
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Old May 23, 2000, 06:25 AM   #3
ctdonath
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Nope. The ONLY legal way to get full autos is to do, as you nicely put it, the class III bull sh*t.

For all the rights violations involved, it's actually not all that bad if you can get a cooperative chief LEO to sign the form. Just do the work. A few hours of footwork and paper pushing and politeness, plus a few months of waiting, sure beat ten years in federal prison. I went thru the process just to learn the class III process; it really wasn't that bad. (Unconstitutional, yes, but not terribly painful or difficult.)

Don't listen to rumors that generally ignorant people tell you. The ONLY way to do this stuff right is to contact a law-abiding dealer and do everything exactly the way he tells you. Verifying everything directly with the BATF is a good idea.
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Old May 23, 2000, 11:06 AM   #4
rancherman
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okay thanks. i did not think it was true about the sear just checking.
for full auto fire i will wait. the closest i can afford to get to full auto, right now, is a tac trigger and i have a little more respect for my guns than to do that to them.
thanks

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Old May 23, 2000, 06:31 PM   #5
James K
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This is a case of tricky and misleading advertising. Drop in auto sears (DIASs) were originally not controlled as machineguns in and by themselves.

As of 1981, the rules were changed and today a DIAS is a machinegun itself, whether installed in a rifle or not, whether the owner even has the appropriate rifle or not.

Those DIASs made after 1981 and prior to 1986 were registered, have numbers on them, and can be transferred, like any other machineguns. They are listed for sale on some web sites.

So, DIASs made before 1981 are not machineguns and can be transferred without paperwork.

Now here is the trick. The advertiser says, accurately, that those pre-1981 DIASs can be sold and owned legally; no BATF paperwork, no $200, no problem. What the ad does not say is that if you put one of them into a rifle, you have manufactured a machinegun, and can go to prison. The advertiser only wants to make his money by deliberately misleading the purchaser.

The same trick is pulled with "partly machined receivers" and "tubes with templates". Yes, they are legal to buy and own. But if you complete the machining, or if you cut holes in the tube, you are making or attempting to make a machinegun, and thus violating the law.

HTH

Jim
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Old May 24, 2000, 08:51 AM   #6
M1911
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At least one of the advertisers in Shotgun News for supposed pre-ban DIAS has the letters PDC in front of their 800 number. I wouldn't be surprised if PDC stands for Pretty Dumb Criminal and that the person answering the phones works for the BATF.

If you want class III, do it right. Club Fed is probably not much fun at all.

Jared
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Old June 2, 2000, 04:00 PM   #7
Eric Blair
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As someone who's dealt with the bull**** a few times, let me put my .02 in.

1. Are you a prohibited possessor? If so, go buy a playboy and forget about NFA weapons. If not, continue.

2. Find a good dealer.

3. Find out if what you want is legal where you are. Any good dealer should be able to tell you, or just ask here!

4. Find out if you can get sign off. (Again, any dealer/here should help.

5. THE HARD PART. Earn enough money to buy what you want. Find someone to sell you what you want for the money you have!

From that point on, it really depends on where you live. In AZ, if you can get a CCW, you can get an NFA weapon, with no special hurdles. Just $200, 3 pics of yourself, 3 fingerprint cards, fill out a form 4, fill out whatever the county needs. (In Maricopa, just a simple form)

Then, wait, wait, wait.

Only other PIA, is no one but you can have the toy, and you can't take it accross state lines without a 5320.20. Not a big deal, but you have to do it...

It isn't a big deal. No searches, no giving up of rights(Other than the 2nd).

If you are thinking about it, find someone in you area who's already into it, and check it out!

Lotta, lotta fun!

Eric
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Old June 3, 2000, 12:12 AM   #8
James K
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Hi, guys,

Small point but may be important. If buyer and seller live in the same state, there is no requirement under Federal law to go through a dealer. If you do, the transaction costs $400 in tax rather than $200, and the dealer will charge a markup as a service charge. (Seller to dealer = $200 tax; dealer to buyer = $200 tax, plus dealer charge.)

Seller to buyer = $200 tax, no dealer markup.

The Form 4 is not some secret mystery that only dealers know; as government forms go, it is pretty simple.

Jim
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Old June 5, 2000, 05:39 PM   #9
Normalizer
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I just finished the paperwork and got the chief LEO where I live to approve me, am waiting to hear back from the feds. It was painless where I live, but I allready have a concealed carry permit so that might have helped.

One question though... as far as nobody else getting possession of my gun, does that include letting a buddy shoot it when at a range? Not talking about letting them borrow it, but when I go to the range I usually take a buddy (they can shoot my stuff if they buy the ammo) and it would be a major bummer if Joe-Bob couldn't play with me.

Is that the way it is or am I reading too much into your quote below?


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eric Blair:
Only other PIA, is no one but you can have the toy, and you can't take it accross state lines without a 5320.20. Not a big deal, but you have to do it...
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Old June 5, 2000, 07:15 PM   #10
Jeff51
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If you are present you can let ANYBODY shoot your class 3. If you don't have a copy of your form 4 you should get a copy to keep with the gun. I have a copy in the case that I use and one in the glove box. Have Fun!!!!!!!!!!

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Old June 6, 2000, 02:56 PM   #11
Eric Blair
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Sorry for the confusion.
Of course you can go shooting with someone, and let them shoot your gun.

Issue is when you are not there. It would be illegal to leave the gun a friends house. Loan it to a friend. Leave it where your SO has access to it when you are not around. Whoever is on the Form 4 is the only one allowed to "possess" the firearm. If you let a friend shoot it, with you standing near by, you are still in possession of the firearm. But, if you run off to the gun shop to get extra ammo, you can't leave it with your friend. He would be illegally possessing the firearm, as he isn't on the Form 4.

A minor PIA, and to remain totally above board, my SO doesn't have a key to the safe where I keep my Title 2 stuff.

Eric
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Old June 6, 2000, 10:11 PM   #12
Normalizer
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Tjat all makes sense, thanks....
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Old June 8, 2000, 03:16 PM   #13
James K
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I think that is a little excessive. The Form 4 is not a license to possess, it is a record of tax payment and registration. Unless ownership is being transferred, BATF is not further involved. Leaving the gun in a friend's house might be considered as a transfer, but I doubt that allowing someone else access to it in your house could by any stretch be considered as transferring ownership. Obviously, a machinegun is not only a dangerous weapon, but also a very valuable one, so it should be handled accordingly.

Jim
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