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Old March 26, 2005, 06:23 PM   #201
semperlex
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Wow, what a thread! A lot has been said about this so I'll try and keep it short. SWAT teams are in place as an insurance policy that you never want to cash in. However, there are times that these specialized teams are needed. Such as High Risk incidents. This is done to preserve life not take it. Now each department may have it's own criteria for what is a "High Risk Incident (HRI)" but overall, dealing with felons who are reportedly armed classifies as HRI for a lot of departments. It would be nice to have more lattitude in some of these situations but the wonderful ACLU has taken that discretion away from police otherwise "police would be discriminating against others".
When an officer enters a situation, they are faced with a lot of options and try to do their best so that everyone goes home at the end of the shift and hopefully the bad guy goes to jail.
YES, it is a shame that the bad guy was shot, that he was unarmed and subsequently died from his wounds. However, don't forget about the officer who has to live with this incident knowing that a subject provoked the officer into using deadly force when it might not have been necessary. I use the term "necessarry" because the U.S. Supreme Court has said that officers will not be judged with "20/20 hindsight" but rather what was known to the officer at the time and was the force used "objectively reasonable". No where does the law state that officers have to be right, they only have to be reasonable in their actions. And believing that th suspect was assaulting the officers was apparently reasonable.
Will the city end up paying money...you bet! That is the nature of today's litigous society. Was the officer reasonably in fear of his life or the life of others? The courts apparently have said "yes".
Citizens may not like the outcome but remember that officer's have rights too and that includes the right to go home at the end of his shift
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Old March 27, 2005, 02:19 AM   #202
The Hood
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I agree

still I think this shouldn't had happened and the two flashbangs outside his farm house bedroom window was to get him up and headed to the door with a weapon in hand and take him out.

This Fullmer dude stood on my Brother-in law head while he was handcuffed laying face down on the floor. For no reason and my Bro didn't get no tickets or arrested. One of them Hear-say raids.

This same group of cops on Dec 17 kept a woman from getting dressed for 2 1/2 hours while she was in her bedroom for 2 of that handcuffed and sitting on her bed. They took turns guarding her and never arrested her either.

Just a bad bunch of cops that wanted to use some of their fire power after 10 years of practice and not getting too....10 years they 5 taskforce cops have been together and practicing what they never get to do..

There the problem..To much training for corn country people.

I wonder why they didn't gang attack Vierkandt's house like they did Brett's???? He stole the gun and sold it without saying where it came from and that it was a cops gun and there right on my heels.

YES!! to buy and even be around a hot cop gun is foolish and deadly.

Hood
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Old March 27, 2005, 02:49 PM   #203
LAK
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Questions around the circumstances and subsequent individual actions of the officers involved aside; Semperlex touches on another general issue. In this, as in so many other cases, it sounds like a far more reasonable approach would have been surveillance, search warrant, grab subject outside his home somewhere, and then execute a search warrant in a more relaxed fashion.

This would reduce the risk to both innocent bystanders inside residences, police personnel involved, and all those in cases of mistaken addresses etc.

The natural reaction to any sudden home invasion is to repel with force. And rightly so. Citizens can not be expected to throw themselves prostrate before any sudden home invasion or unannounced entry. So every time warrants are executed in this fashion there is a heightened risk to all concerned which in many cases is totally un-necessary.
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Old April 2, 2005, 10:58 AM   #204
haskell
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It's been a week. How about closing before he comes down from whatever he is on and incites the troops again.
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Old April 2, 2005, 12:03 PM   #205
yorec
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Shame on ya Haskell, not letting the thread die - I thought the Hood was back, lol. Was curious what new non-factoids he was bringing... Don't ya know the down time is usually longer than the up? - nice to see someone other then me was suspecting the same (thus my question as to whether he lost more than a friend in this guy's demise)...

Still NO proof of wrongful death...

Still waiting to see what the wheels of justice churn out... (oh, they already have found that there were no criminal actions on the part of the LEOs involved, for those that forgot or had that info blotted out by some sort of induced stupor!)

Oh yeah - second the motion to close!
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