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Old March 7, 2005, 12:05 AM   #1
Kayser
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C.O.L., primer seating, overall weight questions.

After a super busy week and not being able to fiddle around, I finally seated my first 50 rounds of 45 ACP.

The load is : 5.4 gr unique, 230gr FMJ-RN bullet, 1.230" COL.

I found that it was harder than I thought to get the COL exactly right. I'd get the die adjusted to bang out 1.230 exactly. Then I'd get a round that came out 1.231 - 1.232. ***, I'd think, and readjust. Then shortly after I'd get a round or two that were undersized 1.228 - 1.229. I eventually realized that I had a few rounds where the primer wasn't seated perfectly - generally due to being just a hair cockeyed. Hard to see even with the eye, but you could feel it when holding against the caliper. I used the Lee handheld autoprime job to seat the primers.

Anyways, most of the rounds came out exactly at 1.230". But a bunch were 1.231 or 1.229. And 2 or 3 rounds were 1.228. Are these variances ok (I can't imagine it's a problem)? Is there any good technique for getting the autoprime to seat things a little more consistently? Should I be a little more aggressive with the pocket cleaner tool?

I weighed the final rounds. With 5.4 gr of Unique, 230 gr bullets and one-fired brass which weighed around 87-89 grains I was expecting final weights around 325 grains. I weighed all the rounds and they all came in between 322 - 325 grains. I had one which was oddly overweight at around 330 gr, so I tossed it. Is this a pretty expected weight variance for this kind of load?

Next up - to crimp or not to crimp. Unfortunately, I'm out of town all next week on business, so it'll be some time before I can try these bad boys out.

Thanks for any input.
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Old March 7, 2005, 10:27 AM   #2
Sturm
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Your tolerance variables are actually very good at +.001" and - .002". If you hit +/- .001" I'm not sure you could expect better. One reason I still load with a Single Stage press. When someone makes a progressive press that will do this, I'll buy one. I have a REDDING BOSS press. With jacketed bullets, on a good day, I can hold tolerance to +/- .001" and the results are visible on the target. Some will tell you that OAL is not that critical to accuracy, this oppinion usually comes with the fact that they use a progressive. If you are using a progressive without a micrometer seating die, please tell me which one it is!
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Old March 7, 2005, 01:02 PM   #3
Austin Charles
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Could it be a LEE?


I'm willing to bet it is
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Old March 7, 2005, 01:08 PM   #4
Sturm
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Okay, I'll bet you Ft Worth, for Austin! Since I live in neither.
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Old March 7, 2005, 01:12 PM   #5
Austin Charles
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your on
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Old March 7, 2005, 02:32 PM   #6
Sarge
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The important things are these- that the bullet is not seated too deeply, (pressure spikes) that the crimp is firm enough that the bullet doesn't set back upon contact with the feed ramp, and that it functions through your particular gun. I went to a taper-crimp die about 13 years ago, and my .45 ACP reloading woes ceased to exist.

0.004 overal disparity in OAL? Still under SAMMI max OAL, and the rounds feed through your gun? Don't worry. Be happy.

PS- NEVER accept "high primers" as an OK thing. Squeeze harder, or get a new priming tool.
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Old March 8, 2005, 06:41 PM   #7
Austin Charles
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Well Sturm, Just how much is Ft. Worth TX. worth?

Here is what Kayser wrote in another thread....Sounds like you just might be giving those Lee dies a try after all

I hit the gun show today and picked up a bunch of stuff, and then rounded out what I needed with an order from MidwayUsa. This time next weekend I should be looking at a fully setup rig. Whee!

Anyways, here's what I came up with:

Lee Challenger Press: $34.95
Redding 3 Powder Measure: $115.95
RCBS 502 powder scale: $56.99
Lee 4-die 45 ACP set: $26.89
Lee Auto-primer: $14.95
Auto-primer shellholder set: $16.95
Frankford Arsenal case tumbler: $48.95
10# treated corn cob media: $9.50
Frank Arsenal standard caliper: $20
Forster Original case trimmer: $59.99
Hornady Case Care kit: $24.95
3 100 ct 45 case holder boxes: $8.85
Hornady Reloading Book Set: $44.95

750 Hornady 230gr FMJ-RN: $68
250 "generic" 230 gr FMJ: $23.50
1000 ct Winchester WLP primers: $14.95
1# Unique powder: $14.95

Total cost : ~$605, including enough components for 1000 rounds. I -think- that covers all the bases, but I'm sure I missed something. I'm gonna make some homemade shell holders for seperating out primed/charged cases during the loading process.

This is gonna be fun
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Old March 9, 2005, 11:48 AM   #8
crazylegs
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Actually, those variances in oal are very good. I've found that oal differences for me are caused by bullet to bullet variations in ogelves (spelling?). The seating stem will seat either a bit higher or lower on the bullet causing changes in oal. I see no problem in the variances you mention.
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Old March 9, 2005, 08:01 PM   #9
Sturm
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AC, is the Challenger progressive? I'll have to admit, $34.95 seems like an excellent price for a progressive!
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Old March 10, 2005, 02:31 PM   #10
Austin Charles
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So are you going to give the Lee dies a try?

Your exact words "Your tolerance variables are actually very good at +.001" and - .002". If you hit +/- .001" I'm not sure you could expect better."

And that is with Lee, so if I take everything you have said about Lee, I'll have to think that you like Lee dies.
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Old March 21, 2005, 06:56 PM   #11
Sturm
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Well then, keep thinkin' and maybe someone will throw the light switch on for you, because I said when someone makes a PROGRESSIVE press that would hold tolerances like what Kayser achieved, without the use of a micrometer seating die, I will buy one, meaning PROGRESSIVE press, not LEE dies. If you're happy with LEE dies, God bless you! I didn't start at this last week and I don't condescend to anyone that has something that works for them. Lee products don't work for me and I believe in almost all cases, a quality control oriented handloader will upgrade eventually. If you are using LEE and it works for you, by all means, stick with it!
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Old March 22, 2005, 09:29 PM   #12
Harlie
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Tolerances Listed are

OK for all but the most precision work. IDPA, USPSA, Steel matches and general practice, tolerances are more than adequate. Rifle reloading requires more precision. Primers being properly seated is critical to a reliable, functioning hand gun. A Lee primer seater works fine, once you develop the feel for a properly seated primer, when it doesn't feel right, set it aside and examine closely for a fault. Same applies to a progressive, you develop feel. Some cases allow seating without much pressure and some require more effort. I haven't cleaned a .45 ACP primer pocket in last three years, yet will clean each and every rifle primer pocket. Last operation to do is case gauge every reload for chamber fit, especially for any competetive endeavor. Even if not saving a large amount of monies reloading, it is an enjoyable hobby. Being retired, I couldn't afford to shoot each weekend w/o doing so.
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Old March 22, 2005, 09:34 PM   #13
Harlie
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Ps

Over all weight of a reloaded cartriage is not a reliable indicator. Too many variables apply. Even bullets, especially lead vary considerably, as do casings of different manufactors.
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Old March 23, 2005, 12:04 AM   #14
G56
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Quote:
Over all weight of a reloaded cartriage is not a reliable indicator. Too many variables apply. Even bullets, especially lead vary considerably, as do casings of different manufactors.
There is a variance in case weight even within the same brand and lot of brass.
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Old March 23, 2005, 06:03 AM   #15
WESHOOT2
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in my 650

I sometimes use two seat dies side-by-side, with the final also adding crimp.

+/-.001"; perfect.
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