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Old March 17, 2005, 10:42 PM   #1
USP45usp
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I am NOT paranoid, I just know human beings

Got home about 2.5 hours ago and went through my normal tactics, checking mail, reading mail, throwing away junk mail, you know, the cycle of life.

Made me a "relaxer" and settled down to the O'Reilly Factor and just was enjoying life. The window shades open so I watched the sun go down and when the blackness hit, closed the shades and turned on my lamp.

Well, I'm just sitting there, watching TV (now it's on Cops) and trying to talk to my cat that her running like a crazy thing and knocking over things is not what I love her for when I get a knock at the door.

I look out (peeping) and see that the outside light is not on.. oops, forgot to hit the switch. I hit the switch to "continuous light on mode" and look at. See this person who looks like he's been fighting the zombies from the dawn of the dead.

I am not a judgemental person and I don't hate anyone. But I am cautious. I don't open the door (this guy is now bouncing from foot to foot) and I ask how I may help him.

His car has broken down... now, I don't judge people but I don't think that this person could afford a gallon of gas at the prices that it is now, so I say that I will call whomever they wish and get them help.

Nope, wants to come in, the number is "secret" you know. I don't go for that. I dial 911 and while talking to the person, describe the person and that they wish to come in, invited or not from what I can tell, and that I am prepared to protect myself. Sheriff dispatcher is under full understanding.

I continue to help this guy out (and I really was, if he was broken down or needed gas or whatever, I would gladly make the call. I use cell phones only and if I go over my minutes, it's .30 a pop and that can grow but I will not allow someone in need to stay in need).

Then I hear the back door handle going back and forth. It's locked. I tell the guy out front that if that is a friend of his at the back door, then he had better call the cops because I was about to unload on his friends buttocks. The guy left the front door, went around to the side and said something (I didn't hear) and then the sheriff showed (great timing, I'm sure that the folks were about to bolt).

Arrested (for warrents) to transiants. Saved, my life and maybe the anger they would have had and taken it against my vehicles.

They pulled a steak knife off of the one that was trying to get in from the back and a freakin butcher knife from the one in the front (blade was only about 12 or so inches long but I thought it was a brush knife when I first saw it ).

Seems that they were harmless overall (never used the knives but had intimidated enough people in the area, especially by the college and uptown that they got money from them) but still, out in the country, they may have thought they could do more. But they failed to realize that the country is vastly different (for the most part) to the city and the college (we don't do the snivel thing).

It was an interesting night so far (and it's only 7:38pm here) and yes, I am still relaxing. Was strange though, I had the Kimber (her time for sentry) in hand, trying to help this person, and then to have to go through this. The Sheriff (deputy actually) didn't take my gun (actually liked it, I put on a pair of Pearl Grips on it just to check it out.. yeah, about a month or so ago but I like the looks ) and just said that if I had any more trouble to give a call. Gave me a case number and that was it.

This is not a bad neighborhood if you erase the people across the street (and they are the problem and these people probably got alot of "wives tales" from them about what I have and such) but still, how could these people think that country folk are this stupid and on the last note, Thank Goodness that I didn't have to use anything (my worse nightmare but will face it if it happens).

Wayne
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Old March 17, 2005, 10:48 PM   #2
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It sounds like you handled the situation very well and that's what counts.
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Old March 17, 2005, 10:52 PM   #3
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Holy Sh*t, you are pretty calm for almost being murdered by two guys obviously doing a home invasion on you with a butcher knife and another 12 in?? long knife. And they were just harmless??

Good thing you arent a nice guy USP and opened the door. You would have been filet mignon. That guy coming around to the back and grabbing on the door, thats pretty scary. Those guys are lucky they didnt get in, they dont even know.
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Old March 17, 2005, 10:58 PM   #4
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Old March 17, 2005, 11:04 PM   #5
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Nice work Wayne! Kept your head, thought it through and stayed calm.
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Old March 17, 2005, 11:10 PM   #6
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Hard Ball,

After thinking about it again (lasted last then an hour), I'm still in wonder (not shock) about the whole deal.

Happened fast (as what is usually the time that most say), it was unexpected (another), and in a way I was way too arrogent for the situation (thinking that since I was armed, let's "rock and roll").

The main part was just keeping my cool in the situation. I had the front door and the back door barred (locked) and when I knew I had the upper hand, did kinda go from the fight or flight to I had everything under control mode. I don't know what I would have done if they would have bolted, I could only give a discription of the one at the door, but I think that I would have waited for the LEO's and then worried that they would be ****** and come back to destroy my car/truck (won't work, both are alarmed ).

It was a strange setup through. I really didn't feel intense fear or such because I was arrogant in the power that I thought I commanded. That the Kimber, the HK (easy to get to and it is loaded) and the thought about the shotgun that was also there, I had an easy and justifiable(sp) way to kill, defend against, these people if they got in.

In a way, I chalk it up to being prepared and such, in another, I take it as a darwin what-a-be person, and in another, I take it as druggies that have have a few things work and think the same out in the country.

They learned, it's not the same.

Yet, it gives one pause of what may happen while just relaxing in their own home. My home is my castle and I treat it as such. When I get off work, all I wish to do is come to my home, relax, drink a few (if that is your thing) and watch tv or listen to the radio or just get on the computer. It's a "safe place" that one can just be themselves and relax.

This is really considered a "non-issue" with most folks, yet, when it happens to you, you start to think that it may be an issue, or could be.

Yet, what happened tonight, I don't really consider a big deal. Two bums who thought that they could shake me down for a few bucks, even armed with knives, once I found out, didn't really put me into the "kill them all and let God sort them out" thing.

But, it gives one thoughts on what to do if the people are more dangerous then those that I encountered.

Wayne
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Old March 17, 2005, 11:23 PM   #7
USP45usp
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snacktrack,

Edited: Sorry about that SnackTrack. I guess I was hyped up and had the adriniline(sp, I really need to learn how to spell ) dump and I know I downed my "relaxer" abit too fast after the LEO left.

I guess I was still freaking out and just read your post/reply the wrong way.

Again, I apologize for that.

Wayne

Last edited by USP45usp; March 18, 2005 at 10:31 AM.
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Old March 17, 2005, 11:36 PM   #8
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Just my 2 cents is I belive he was being genuine. You 2 may have had your differences but your incident was or could of been a very serious matter, and things of that nature will tend to bring people together. Again just my 2 cents. Cant we ALL get along?
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Old March 17, 2005, 11:58 PM   #9
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That is pretty freakin crazy. I'm glad it all worked out though. My wife thinks I am paranoid when I grab my gun when I get a knock on the door unexpectedly. We do live in a pretty good neighborhood though and the police coverage is crazy (too darn good with all those speed traps if you ask me). The back door entrance would have been a big mistake for a bad guy at my house though. They will come face to face with my 80 lb. akita.

A friend told me a story about her neighbor almost getting broken in. This might even be good enough for the Darwin Awards for stupidity. This kid tried to break in through the dog door... LOOK at the SIZE of the FREAKING DOOR!!! If it takes that big a door for the dog to go through, don't you think he would have thought twice??? Akitas aren't big on barking though. They just kill whatever it was that was bothering them and bring it to you as a gift. Now the only problems is there is enough hair around the yeard for 3 dogs and I only have 1. I hate shedding season!!!
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Old March 18, 2005, 12:10 AM   #10
chris in va
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Congratulations on handling the situation properly. I personally haven't been through it, but hopefully my nerves will let me think well enough.

Usually when I get a knock at the door, I look over at my friend and ask if she's expecting anyone. If not, hand on grip of CZ looking through peep hole. Come to think of it, I need a bigger hole or a camera.
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Old March 18, 2005, 12:16 AM   #11
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Wayne:

Sounds like you handled it pretty well. I've never had anybody try and break in while I was at home, but I have been burglarized when I was away, a couple of times, back when I was in Tx.
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Old March 18, 2005, 06:24 AM   #12
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USP:

I hope that this doesn't sound too "zen", but, here it is...

You seem like a person who is at a bit of a conflict with yourself; you have the means to defend yourself, and yet are a bit concerned about using the means, should the situation arise.

In short, you sound like someone who is really and truly aware of the awesome responsibility you shoulder when you pick up a firearm. And, it is a responsibility indeed.

Too many people arm themselves with the latest ubertactical arms and equipment and don't think about what happens when you DO have to shoot. It sounds like you are taking this into consideration. This is a VERY good thing.

Remember, if you will, these facts:

1. If someone is expressing an intent to hurt you, badly; if they have the means to carry out that threat; and if they are in a position to do so RIGHT NOW, you have two choices: Die like a sheep, or fight for your life. Reading your post, I'm willing to say that you will fight.

2. Do not second guess your decision to protect yourself. You have a sovereign, God-given right to LIVE! You have the right to be safe in your person, in your home, and in your daily undertakings. And, should someone make the choice to hurt or kill you, you have the God-given right to deny them that opportunity.

3. Do not worry about the well-being of thugs. If they choose to attack, they accept the responsibility, and they have chosen to pay the price. Be the cashier.

4. Finally, the weapon you have pales in comparison to the weapon that you ARE. Be the weapon.

You did good. God bless, and stay safe.
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Old March 18, 2005, 07:42 AM   #13
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Wayne, read this Ayoob story and tell me the similarities! Sounds just like this true story, which was also the spotlight on an American Justice episode on A&E television. Made my spine tingle reading your story! You are a very smart man...

Near miss: the Andrew Patti incident - The Ayoob Files
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Old March 18, 2005, 08:38 AM   #14
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Cool under pressure. You done a lot of things right. Having your doors locked. There is a whole bunch of folks who only see the need to lock the doors when they are gone or asleep. Having your Kimber at the ready, just in case. Not opening the door. Calling 911. You would think that would be the first thing most folks would think of, but sometimes it seems to be the last thing they think of. All of these things are pretty basic when taken individually, but in combination, they worked pretty well to diffuse a potential threat. Just goes to show again, your most powerful defense is your brain.

...and Powderman, very well said my friend.
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Old March 18, 2005, 11:14 AM   #15
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Good thinking under pressure

Your mind and steps got you out of a bad situation. Very good about not letting in and calling 911. Good story thanks for sharing. I will be more aware when opening my door now.
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Old March 18, 2005, 07:38 PM   #16
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Thanks, USP45 for a most eye opening account of what is available out there in bg land.

I thought I had and eventful afternoon (interviewed for an hour by a local newspaper & photog) on the 1 year old Ohio CCW law. Actually, I should trade the word interviewed for grilled.

Anyway, . . . glad all worked out well for you, . . . proves the addage that if we train right, . . . we will respond right.

I shudder to think what would have occured had you just opened the door to the dark and asked if you could be of assistance.

May God bless,
Dwight
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Old March 19, 2005, 04:12 PM   #17
USP45usp
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Powderman,

Thanks for that .

I've been thinking more and more about the incident and my reactions, not only during, but after.

During the incident, I was (I thought) calm and just went through the steps that I've either read about or thought about but it was the aftermath that now has me thinking.

The way that after I had (thought) calmed down and posted, and then how I "attacked" SnackTrack because I misread his post. Wasn't really thinking clearly and with the adrenaline dump it just got me to thinking more of the aftermath of an incident and the way that we train for an incident, we think about what can happen and what we would do, but we don't really think about the aftermath of.

I don't know if I'm making sense or not. I'm just curious about how we talk of if and when and make plans but we don't think about what happens after or how, just hours after, it effects us.

Wayne
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Old March 19, 2005, 05:29 PM   #18
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You're welcome.

I believe that the state of mind/being that you talk about comes about due to a number of factors:

1. Those of us (probably, 99.9% of those who post here) have thought about all the facets surrounding a self defense shooting.

2. Some of us have actually been trained to work through our own doubts and to get the job done when it needs to be done.

3. When and if the time arises, we react according to not only our conditioning, but according to our mental preparedness as well. We immediately rise to the occasion.

4. Now--and this is the important part, IMHO--after the fact, we hit the "society shoals". What is this? Simply put:

We have been conditioned by our environment, and by society, to believe that if we do NOT feel guilt, sorrow, depression, and extreme remorse for having to hurt someone else that there is something really wrong with us.

When you think about survival--the basic instinct of ANY animal, even us--the opposite is true.

We see in the animal kingdom that after a test of arms, the victor frequently stands over the body of his former foe. And it is former, because seldom do both animals survive a fight to the death. For example, an equine will, when attacked by a cougar, use every means at their disposal to KILL their attacker. It is a no brainer; they are behind the power curve at the onset--they have been ambushed--there is no time to think or to rationalize. The attacker has no use for, and will not listen to pleas or supplications. That cougar only wants one thing--to rip the life from the horse or donkey, quickly, and to eat the victim.

Thus, the equine's teeth, hooves and muscles come into play. If the cougar fails, and is overcome by the equine, it will be flung about, bitten, stamped repeatedly and reduced to a sack of organic jello.

The horse feels no regret. Why should we?

Society has dictated that we should feel remorse and sorrow, when we should be able to literally dance in the streets--because we have survived a vital test; we have vanquished a foe who was intent on killing us--and we have WON!

The current pablum that we are fed--the legal disclaimers that we must use: "I shot to stop", "I discharged my firearm until the threat ceased" serves to further mentally emasculate us. And, the sad fact that we must actually worry about litigation for defending our lives and the lives of others only serves to further confuse the mental state of the good guy.

Bottom line, my friend--you have seen the elephant, and have survived the moment. You have joined the ranks of those who have seen the beast--and where the beast blinked, thought twice and went to find another victim.

I hope that this is as far as you have to go--but if you must, if the situation arises where you have to pull the trigger, I am sure that you will be victorious. You will survive, and yes, even flourish. Good luck and God speed.
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Old March 19, 2005, 09:25 PM   #19
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Hey USP,

I think my post might have been confusing, its kind of run-on sentences. Basically I was just very suprised how mellow you were in a situation where you could have easily been murdered if you were a nice guy(better word, sucker) and opened the door without caution.

Unfotunately the BG always has the upper hand. If you dont have your gun in hand ready to fire, there is no way to outdraw someone with a knife behind their back who suddenly slashes you.

I am just glad you are ok to tell us about the incident so we can all learn from it. I now know what to do if someone comes to my door asking to use my phone. Luckily, I dont have a back door.
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Old March 20, 2005, 06:19 AM   #20
Greg in OKLA
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My home is set up different than most.To get to the front door ,you must go through a wooden gate first,and next to the gate is a large "
beware of dog" sign.I have 2 dogs,an inside Min Pincher,and a indoor/outdoor,Blue Healer/Shepard mix.The Healer/Shepard likes to sit at the inside gate and watch the front door,inside gate area.She stays pretty quiet,unless ther is activity by the gate,then she gets very loud.If anyone is rude/nosey/stupid enough to knock on my front door,I answer through the door,and have a loaded weapon with me,and never open the door to someone I dont know.

Greg
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Old March 20, 2005, 10:00 AM   #21
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Since when is reading the mail considered "tactics."

Snacktrack, nothing in the story indicated that USP was to be murdered. He wasn't almost murdered. He apparently was almost about to be the unwilling participant of a home invasion where no doubt the blades would be used to gain his compliance, but not necessarily murder.
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Old March 20, 2005, 10:39 AM   #22
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If you read it tactically, it's tactics....
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Old March 20, 2005, 07:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Snacktrack, nothing in the story indicated that USP was to be murdered. He wasn't almost murdered.
Hey Double Naught, yeah you are right. Maybe I was a little dramatic, but, he could have been murdered. To me, anyone who is crazy enough to come into someone's home with a knife is willing to do whatever it takes to get money or goods.

There is no clear cut what could happen/what could not happen. What I can say happened is some very cautious thinking which foiled the BG's I would be pretty upset if something like this happened to me, even if they didnt gain entry.
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Old March 20, 2005, 08:14 PM   #24
Edison Carter
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Possession of a knife does not prove intent...

Posession of a BIG knife does not necessarily prove intent...

But TWO unknown men, set on entry by trickery or stealth,
and armed with 12 inch butcher knives, is suggestive enough
to me.

Did they "ONLY" intend to compell compliance from the inhabitants?
Ummm.... maybe.

Are we agreed that it is bad tactics to trust the good will
of a stranger trying to get in your house while posessing a butcher knife?

EC
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