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Old March 8, 2005, 01:30 AM   #1
PinnedAndRecessed
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Question about copper plated bullets

This has to do with .357 ranier reloads. My powder is Unique.

My Lyman loading book says for 125 grain HP the range is from 7.0 grains (minimum) to 9.6 grains max. I assume it's for jacketed HP.

The same manual says for 121 grain cast, the range is 7.2 grains (min) to 9.4 (max).

My Speer manual says, for 125 grain jacketed, 8.6 gr (min) to 9.1 (max).

So it would seem a safe range for any 125 grain bullet, jacketed or no, would be from 7.0 grains Unique up to 9.0 grains Unique.

But I use Ranier copper plated bullets. Their webpage ( http://www.rainierballistics.com/loaddataMW.htm ) says minimum for the 125 grain plated bullets is 5.5 grains Unique to a max of 6.9 grains.

I've already fired some Raniers ahead of 8.0 grains and 9.0 grains Unique, respectively, with no visible signs of excess pressure. That was before I saw Ranier's web page.

Two questions: 1) Why would plated bullets be more fragile than others, 2) Is it safe to go ahead and shoot the other bullets I've loaded with 8.0 and 9.0 grains Unique 3) why the extreme disparity in reloading info.

O.K. Three questions. But you get the point.


Thanx in advance.
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Old March 8, 2005, 05:33 AM   #2
d_mikey
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Ranier bullets are swaged, not cast, and as a general rule, swaged bullets are softer, and therefore cannot be driven as hard. I have no idea about any of your other questions, but I would use Ranier's data to be safe.
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Old March 8, 2005, 07:54 AM   #3
Austin Charles
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When I shoot pleated, I use lead data. Reason is that when I went above the load data for lead and used jacketed data,I saw no preasure signs but I was having a real peoblem with key-holing, and I did have a couple of springs brake in my gun. (that might just have been a coincidence)

Once I droped my load I saw a real improvement in my accuracy.

For this reason and the fact that it only cost me a few dollars more to shoot real jacketed bullets I switched to Montana Gold bullets and I don't think that I will ever go back to pleated bullets.

Also you don't need to crimp pleated bullets, just get the bell out.

Last edited by Austin Charles; March 8, 2005 at 10:10 AM.
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Old March 8, 2005, 10:29 AM   #4
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"Also you don't need to crimp pleated bullets, just get the bell out."

Do you iron your pleats?
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Old March 8, 2005, 12:03 PM   #5
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I even went back and edited for spelling.

It's early, but my spelling could use some improvement
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Old March 8, 2005, 02:18 PM   #6
G56
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I had an over pressure problem with Ranier bullets using loading data from another source, when I used their data the overpressure problem went away, I recommend you use Ranier's reloading data.

Sometimes there is a difference in the way the bullet is designed that isn't obvious to our eyes, I used data for a different brand SWC and it didn't work with the Ranier SWC.
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Old March 8, 2005, 04:06 PM   #7
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Plated bullets use an electric current to deposit copper molecules onto the lead bullet. Jacketed bullets are made by punching the copper "shell" out of a solid slug of copper then ramming a lead core into it. Bonded Jacketed bullets pour liquid lead into the copper shell. Plated bullets have the weakest copper covering and Bonded bullets have the strongest copper covering. I have had plated bullets still deposit lead in my barrels.
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Old March 9, 2005, 08:53 PM   #8
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I disagree.

Quote:
Ranier bullets are swaged, not cast, and as a general rule, swaged bullets are softer, and therefore cannot be driven as hard.
I load the Berry's plated 158gr truncated .358" bullets for my 6" Desert Eagle. I push them to over 1600fps, with a healthy roll crimp, using jacketed bullet data. I've had zero problems with accuracy, cycling, or leading, although the Desert Eagle's polygonal rifling may be a factor in the plating staying together.
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Old March 12, 2005, 09:43 PM   #9
d_mikey
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Note I mentioned Ranier's are swaged. I have no idea if Berry swages or casts their bullets.
It is possible to swage hard lead bullets, but it usually isnt done.
Berry could be plating cast bullets. I haven't looked at their site.
Ranier specifically advertises that their bullets are swaged (twice, as a matter of fact). Swaged bullets are usually made of lead wire, softer than any casting.
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Old March 13, 2005, 08:27 AM   #10
Thirties
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QUOTE by ewehr98:
I load the Berry's plated 158gr truncated .358" bullets for my 6" Desert Eagle. I push them to over 1600fps, with a healthy roll crimp, using jacketed bullet data.
END QUOTE


Gewehr98,
When you say "healthy roll crimp" does that mean a slighty indented ring can be seen if you remove a crimped bullet before firing? When I say slightly, I mean it looks like a soft canelure, with no disturbance of the plating visible. And the loaded round shows no obvious indentation of the bullet.

I ask because I use Berry's plated and I'm roll crimping the way I describe. I'm only in my second year of loading, and I would like to learn if this is a proper roll crimp, or too tight?

My loads are .38 spl at velocities well under 1000 fps.

.
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Old March 13, 2005, 10:12 AM   #11
MADISON
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Copper plated bullets

Copper plated bullets
...as long as you keep the velocity velow 1300 feet per second, you will be OK. I load their 158 grain with 8.0 grains of UNIQUE. It's comfortable [8.0] with a 125 grain.
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Old March 13, 2005, 08:06 PM   #12
Gewehr98
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Probably more "healthy" than some would recommend...

Quote:
When you say "healthy roll crimp" does that mean a slighty indented ring can be seen if you remove a crimped bullet before firing? When I say slightly, I mean it looks like a soft canelure, with no disturbance of the plating visible.
It's definitely a ring, and it's definitely indented. I've even crimped through the plating into the bullet beneath. I try not to, but depending on variances in brass thickness and nickel plating of my .357 brass, sometimes I can't avoid it.

Something that also helps is if the manufacturer resizes the bullets after the copper plating process.

Berry's bullets are indeed swaged, then plated, and resized once again.

Just for grins, I ran a batch of their plated .358" bullets through my Lee sizing die, and they were right on. That helps a lot for uniform crimp.

If I get a chance, I'll pull a bullet from my .357 Desert Eagle loads and take a picture.
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Old March 14, 2005, 01:29 PM   #13
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some are

It's definitely a ring, and it's definitely indented. I've even crimped through the plating into the bullet beneath. I try not to, but depending on variances in brass thickness and nickel plating of my .357 brass, sometimes I can't avoid it.

Something that also helps is if the manufacturer resizes the bullets after the copper plating process.

Berry's bullets are indeed swaged, then plated, and resized once again.

Just for grins, I ran a batch of their plated .358" bullets through my Lee sizing die, and they were right on. That helps a lot for uniform crimp.

If I get a chance, I'll pull a bullet from my .357 Desert Eagle loads and take a picture.
------------------------

SOME of the berrys are double struck,(meaning swaged, copper plated, then sized again), not all of them. Unless they have changed to double striking all of them, they only DS a few. The raniers have the thinnest plating of the three most often talked about, berrys are thicker and west coast,(now called accura bullets), have the thickest. Accura also double strikes ALL their bullets. http://www.accurabullets.com/ I've never tried to push plated bullets up to what you could expect from a jacketed bullet. I would think that the accura bullet would be okay up to what a jacketed bullet would do.
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Old March 14, 2005, 05:45 PM   #14
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Here's a photo, a bit out of focus, of my .38 spl roll crimped round with the Berry plated 125g FP (center); the plain bullet (right); and a pulled bullet showing the indentation from the roll crimp. Is this what you two are refering to? You can see there is an indentation, but no break of the plated copper.

This load shoots fine in my gun. Not yet chronographed due to deep snow.



.

Last edited by Thirties; March 15, 2005 at 07:25 AM. Reason: correcting my spelling errors
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Old March 14, 2005, 06:13 PM   #15
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Here's a pic of a west coast/accura .45 200 SWC cut in half, then one side the lead melted out. The plating measured .004-.005 thick. It's also quite tuff or strong, it could take a heavy crimp without "cracking".



Thirties, that don't look like too much crimp to me. Any more than that would result in a buckled case. You need that much to prevent the bullet from working out under recoil and tying up the cylinder.
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