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Old December 21, 2002, 01:05 PM   #51
Denny Hansen
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For March in Arizona (like Nevada) I'd be prepared for almost anything. I've seen 80 degree temps in March, and I've seen it in the 20's with snow.

The three day class I attended in November saw the class in field jackets one day, rain gear the second, and T-shirts on the last day. Typical Arizona: if your don't like the weather wait an hour--it'll change
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Old December 21, 2002, 01:14 PM   #52
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Rain !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please, no rain.
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Old December 21, 2002, 01:21 PM   #53
Pat Rogers
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Class

444,
You'll be in the desert ay 4700'. If you don't like the weather, wait 15 minutes and it will change.
Really. Bring clothing for all seasons. It will be very cold in the morning and warm during the day.
Sometimes. One April it was 70 on Day 1, then snowed for the rest of the week.

What Gunsite pub said not to lube the gun???
That is absolute nonsense. They used to have a gunsmith there that preached that, but he had no experience working the gun.
The AR needs to have lube to run efficiently. The TW25B is my favorite, but any oil will work.
Pay particular attention to the bolt/bolt carrier. You'll get a class on that while there.
Being in good physical shape never hurts, but you don't need to be a triathelete either. The 223 is pretty sedate. The 556 is prety active.
Bushmaster makes good guns. Most of the others do too. They all make bad ones sometimes too. You won't know until you use it- just like your car!
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Old December 21, 2002, 01:33 PM   #54
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Pat, that advice was given by a gunsmith on the video tape but out by Gunsite entitled Tactical Carbine 1. It gave the guy's name but I don't recall it right now.
Like I said, the Bushmaster manual advises to lube the crap out of it with Break-Free. I have read a little on the Maryland AR15 website and the stuff that had on there said to lube everything including the sight ajustments. I don't recall a whole lot being said about it in my short military carreer. I do remember we used something, I think it was called LSA. It looked like pus. Real thick yellowish stuff. Anyway, I am glad to hear there will be a class on that. It sounds like this is going to be a real good all around course.
I notice that in order to take any more of the carbine classes I first need to take the Defensive Handgun course. I wish that wasn't the case. I am sure I would get a lot out of the course, but this stuff is expensive and I am more interested in the carbine stuff.
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Old December 21, 2002, 01:48 PM   #55
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They said that the biggest culpret in malfunctions was over-lubrication.
That certainly was not my experience in my 4 years in the Infantry. ('Twixt Nam and Grenada, so all peaceful.) More seemed to be better. (Within reason, of course.) I took part in a torture test up at Ft. Lewis. It wasn't planned as such, but somebody ordered too much ammo for my company for qualificaiton. Misplaced a decimal, I think. The CO said to burn it up. So we got some folks up on the line, and put the rest to work loading mags, and we went through it as fast as we could. Full auto mag dumps on the 25 meter target, from the hip, aren't usually standard military procedure on a range, but it sure was fun! Anyway, we used a lot of LSA that day. Uh, MY issued weapon remained secured at the rear. I don't know which poor sucker had the pleasure of cleaning the weapon I fired that day, but mine had only been used to qualify. (It pays to keep your ears open, and know when to break the "never volunteer" rule. )



Quote:
I think it was called LSA. It looked like pus.

That's the stuff. Lubricant, Small Arms, I think. I like it. Pat, Denny, any thoughts on LSA?
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Old December 21, 2002, 02:38 PM   #56
Pat Rogers
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Lube

LSA was surpassed by CLP a long time ago.
I prefer not to use any of the petroleum based lubes due to the nasty things it can do to the human body.
Again- i prefer TW25B and use it on all of my guns.

That tape was produced a long time ago. The info about lube was bum scoop then, and still is now. If the gun has no lube, it won't run.
period.

The reason for the pistol requirement is simple. Gunsite teaches doctrine. The doctrine begins with the pistol.
The pistol is used a bunch during the advanced classes.
If we require a basic carbine prior to permitting a student taking an advanced carbine class, we can be assured that if he did in fact graduate, he has a basis for what is to follow.
If we permit someone to come in with no foundation for the pistol, he will generally present some issues that can slow the entire class down.
We have had a lot of people state that they know all that is needed, why they were in----(take your pick of branch of service), a cop, in a gunstore once, or shot competively, and therefore should have the req's waived.
Almost all of them caused problems during the class.

We need to crawl before we walk, and walk before we run.
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Old December 21, 2002, 03:22 PM   #57
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Right, I know where you are coming from Pat. I have no formal handgun training at all although I frequently shoot handguns and have competed in a couple different handgun sports. The stuff I did was not the type of stuff they teach at Gunsite. I would certainly love to do nothing but takes all the courses at all the schools, but money and time are in fixed quantities. I am rapidly finding out that this carbine course is going to cost me thousands. I assume the handgun course would do likewise. And in order to spend thousands on an advanced carbine class, I will have to spend the thousands on the pistol class. Not to mention of course the vacation time. Oh well.......................
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Old December 21, 2002, 05:55 PM   #58
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Pat, not only have I been inside a gun shoppe oncet, but I've read a couple of gun articles (you know--imaginary goats or 9 vs. 45 with mandatory photos of pointing firearms at self) written by Kalifornee guys in flowered shirts who also write about "hot rods" and beach volleyball. Does this make me double-certified expert?

444, Pat knows a lot more, but as another alternative, have you tried Kellube on your carbine? I like it for when you shoot a lot.

Hey, don't worry it's only money (I tell the IRS and the IDoR this all the time). On the positive side, think of all the antinquing you'll not have to do by enrolling in class. "Honey, I'd love to go look at old, feckless furniture, but I've GOT to get ready for Gunsite."
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Old December 22, 2002, 11:53 AM   #59
Denny Hansen
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Another option is to log onto the Weather Channel's website shortly before departure. They'll give a rough idea of what to expect for the following week. Zip code for Chino Valley (just South of Gunsite) is 86323.

captainHoek-
One lube that doesn't seem to burn off very easily and in my experience has worked very good is plain old ATF fluid. When you think what kind of temp your transmission gets up to, makes sense. I've also experimented with some of the new synthetic oils for cars. Three bucks a quart instead of 5-6 bucks for a small bottle. Doesn't say "gun lube" on the bottle, but works damn well.

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Old December 22, 2002, 12:28 PM   #60
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Quote:
Doesn't say "gun lube" on the bottle, but works damn well.
Ohhhh nooooo, Denny! not the dreaded "Gun Scrubber vs. brake cleaner" thread again!





But I'm with the brake cleaner crowd, so I'm glad to get tips like yours. Thanks! I was away from gunning for a good number of years, so I'm not well versed on modern lubricants. That's why I missed the LSA to CLP change.


Speaking of course pre-regquisites, would John Farnam's 3 day course meet the pre-reqs for the carbine class? 444, you won't need to spend thousands on John's class.

http://www.defense-training.com/courses/index.html

BTW, his quips and quotes aaare worth reading.
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Old December 22, 2002, 01:58 PM   #61
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Almost forgot:
Those cute little Tobasco bottles that come in the condiment kits of MREs make a great way to carry non-standard/packaged lubes. 'Bout an inch high and made of glass so they won't deteriorate the way some PVC bottles will.

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