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Old December 7, 2002, 12:44 AM   #1
MJRW
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ok, you SG and 870 fans, un-confuse me

And yes, that is a challenge if you have any concept of all that I don't know about shotguns. First, allow me to preface:

1. I fully intend to purchase a virtual plethora of ammo to shoot. I love shooting my handguns and rifles (even the ones that kick). I love increasing accuracy.

2. I did in fact search but can't find the answers I am looking for.

This is where I hope people can unconfuse me. I am in the next week or so most likely buying a shotgun. My cabinet has been aching for one. Unable to find any real bargains in rifles and handguns right now, I decided to add the necessary shotgun. The end use of this shotgun will be two fold; home defense and eventually turkey hunting. I have decided on an 870 Express (not the magnum, just the 2-3/4" / 3"). That much is a done deal. The ones I am considering are as follows:

870 Express Turkey - 21" barrel - Rem Choke
870 Express Synthetic - 18" barrel - Cylinder

Now this is where I get all confooooooooooosed. I believe that the Rem Choke decreases spread which thereby gets through those thick hides and interlocking bulletproof feather armor. I think that the Improved Cylinder works with rifled slugs and therefore makes it good for range use. I've also been reading that longer barrels make little difference except for sight radius.

Now, I think I would probably be best served with the Express Synthetic and purchasing a Full Choke and possibly an Improved Choke if it will go in, but I don't know that it will. Will it? Also, If I get the Express Turkey, can I take the choke out and load it with 00 buck shot for home defense? Do slugs work well in an open cylinder?
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Old December 7, 2002, 12:54 AM   #2
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Quote:
Now, I think I would probably be best served with the Express Synthetic and purchasing a Full Choke and possibly an Improved Choke if it will go in, but I don't know that it will. Will it? Also, If I get the Express Turkey, can I take the choke out and load it with 00 buck shot for home defense? Do slugs work well in an open cylinder?
First the less restrictive ( choke ) would be better for the slugs assuming you are using a std rifled-slug.

next the choke provides a more denser pattern and should not have a direct effect on velocity.

In the above models you would do fine with both and leaning towards the longer barrel for turkey and other birds/waterfowl.

Quote:
can I take the choke out and load it with 00 buck shot for home defense?
also, never fire any load without a choke installed. I reccommend that you start out patterning with a very open choke. Most people get over crazy with using full and extra-full chokes, they have their application and surely are great for turkey but in most parts IC- thru Mod or Imp-mod are about the everyday norm.
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Old December 7, 2002, 12:59 AM   #3
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I appreciate the response. Most of my shooting is done at NRA range and they only allow slugs to be shot. How would this best be accomplished? Basically what I'm asking is this, I guess:

1. Which choke for turkey?
2. Which choke for HD?
3. Which choke for slugs?
4. Can I get any choke I need for any 870 I get?
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Old December 7, 2002, 01:12 AM   #4
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Rem choked barrels uses screw-in chokes, so they are interchangeable, so you can use any choke you want (cylinder, improve cylinder, full etc.) as long it's a rem choke.

1. Extra full is appropriate.

2. Doesn't matter too much IMHO, you are so close that spread doesn't really matter.

3. More open one. What are you going use slugs for?

4. Sure, as long as you have rem choked barrel...Check out Briley chokes they are excellent.


The synthetic 18in barrel has a fixed cylinder choke so you can't change it, if you're going to hunt turkeys you need to get another barrel, either with a fixed full choke or a rem choke barrel. Or go with the turkey gun.

Last edited by bamf; December 7, 2002 at 02:09 AM.
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Old December 7, 2002, 06:44 AM   #5
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The guys nailed it pretty much, here's the cherry on top....

Any short bbled 870 will do fine for HD, including that Turkey wacker. A few extra choke tubes from cylinder to IM will make the weapon suitable for anything in North America, including goblin control.I suggest, Cylinder, Improved Ccylinder, Modified and Improved Modified. Or, Skeet, Light Modified, Improved Modified.

For HD, choke is meaningless.

The Xfull tube usually does well for turkey hunting, but only patterning will show for sure. Shotguns and shells are laws unto themselves, and only testing will show the best combinations.

Slugs are of limited utility for either turkey or HD.

Also, 3" shells ARE Magnums. For HD and practice, the 2 3/4" stuff works well.

Finally, I see little difference in handling between a 18" bbled 870 and a 21". I've both.

HTH....
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Old December 7, 2002, 12:55 PM   #6
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What Dave said^^^^, if it were me I would buy the 21" turkey gun.
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Old December 7, 2002, 06:07 PM   #7
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Its done. The 870 turkey gun will be in my possession on wednesday. Local dealer didn't have one in. I could have gotten it from Wal-mart a few dollars cheaper, but I feel a sense of loyalty to this dealer.
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Old December 7, 2002, 06:56 PM   #8
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By the way. Thanks for the help, guys.
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Old December 8, 2002, 08:57 AM   #9
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You're welcome. Now go buy ammo, use up, repeat....
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Old December 8, 2002, 12:45 PM   #10
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That Remington 870 turkey gun is a nice one. Enjoy!
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Old December 8, 2002, 03:44 PM   #11
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Beware the dubious "duplex" loads, I've never seen one that patterned consistantly.

PS Get a RIFLED choke for shooting slugs.
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Old December 8, 2002, 07:29 PM   #12
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Ok, what choke am I getting with it? I think I'm getting an Extra full. Thanks, Dr. Rob, for pointing me to the right choke for slug shooting. Now, what is the best choice for chokes for HD?

Also, I've already considered hard mounting an accessory rail up top. Is this done? I want to be able to swap out scope, light, and any other thing I may want to attach (maybe red dot?).
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Old December 9, 2002, 04:32 AM   #13
Dave McC
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You are getting an Extra Full choke tube. Add a few more like in my previous post in this thread,
and you're set.

I vehemently recommend you hold off on mods until you've put a few cases of ammo through your shotgun. ALL the addons and mods in the world will NOT make up for a lack of expertise. Use light loads and have fun.
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Old December 9, 2002, 10:25 AM   #14
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Dave,

Thanks for the advice. What you said is always sound and is always good to see. As with any firearm I own, I shoot it pretty frequently. I know its wrong to assume so, but I assume frequent shooting to be a given. I shoot on average 10 hours a month. I shoot a new weapon as the primary range gun until I can consistently group, have solid knowledge of fixing failures, and have identified my problems. I am also already in contact with someone who I have taken classes with before to arrange a class. As is also part of my nature, I research exhaustively. I've been researching which shotgun for 2 months. So right now, mod questions are fact finding.

How different is shotgunning than rifle shooting with open sights? I understand the loading and action on a shotgun are different, but is it otherwise similar? Except for clay shooting, which I do have experience with as a youth, I would think that the stance and hold are going to be very similar to shooting a potent rifle. Am I wrong about this?
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Old December 9, 2002, 11:24 AM   #15
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Certainly to each his own, but I'd just as not have the rifled choke. (No. I'm not giving it away though. )

I've the 870 Turkey - all 'round favorite. Comes with the extra full choke & I grabbed an Imp & Mod choke - seems to cover all the bases.

Bought the rifled choke to try the spiffy sub-caliber sabot slugs = key-holing at 25 yards/accuracy sucked. Settled on PMC's Brennekes which shoot just fine through the modified choke.

The "high-tech" slugs are way expensive & while you have the rifled tube installed, your shot patterns will likely suffer.

My favorite all 'round choke is Mod & with that, I can shoot slugs & all shot.

YMMV.
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Old December 9, 2002, 07:29 PM   #16
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Riflery and shotgunning are antipathetic to a degree. Being good at one can hinder one at the other. BUT, it's fixable.

Those good at benchrest rifle, High Power, etc, often really $%^&* up with a shotgun. At least at first, lots of those folks are obsessive enough to gut it out and get good through liberal applications of elbow grease. Been there...

The big things are moving the focus from the sights to the target, and adjusting to a moving target. Rifles are generally shot at still targets or slowly moving ones, whereas shotguns have to put a cloud of shot where something is going to be. This can be difficult, like tracking a dove as it gyres and gymbals by.

Your approach is of great merit. To really learn something down in the synapses, it's best to immerse oneself in whatever it is until it's learned past any forgetting. Concentrating on the shotgun and using your approach should have you past the steepest part of the learning curve PDQ.

As for technique, maybe the old thread on Proper Mounting Techniques might help.

The few times I've shot something offhand from 375 H&H level rifles, I've used the same mount and stance I do with shotguns loaded with anything heavier than my creampuff trap loads. Weight well forward with the front knee bent, control hand pulling the weapon back into the "Cup", firm cheek weld.

As for mods, etc, you know my opinions. Here's the short list of must haves.

A clean trigger, less than 5 lbs.

A stock that fits.

Sights you can see.

And finally, lots of ammo.

That's it.

Get some lessons that get your form off to a good start and have fun while getting good.

As for slugs, there's few absolutes. Try the more open chokes first,usually nothing past Modified works the best.

HTH....

Last edited by Dave McC; December 10, 2002 at 05:29 AM.
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Old December 10, 2002, 05:10 AM   #17
labgrade
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MJRW,

To better reply to your speciifics:

Seems nobody really adressed what you asked.

I've seen no real difference between IMP & MOD chokes with the use of the Brenneke style slugs. Accuracy depends mostly on what type sighting sytem you have. I've an iron-sight IMP cylinder tube that shoots very well to 50+ yards. My double bead 21" Turkey (vent ribbed tube Mod) shoot them slightly not as well, but certainly good enough to 50 yards.

Longer barrels = better all told, but iron sights, or double beads, can make a big difference. All told, shotguns are a "point 'n slap" interface. Sights likely aren't all that conducive to extreme accuracy (maybe my own take on the nature of the beast).

But, with iron sights, I was doing ~2" groups at 50 yards & with that double bead = call it 3" 3-shot groups at 50 yds. Even 4" groups at 50 is pretty darned good for the power.

Choke really matters depending on what you're shooting.

I've seen not much difference between modified versus improved cylinder for most slugs - depends again mostly on the sights used.

C'mon back with stuff not answered.
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