The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old June 30, 1999, 02:16 PM   #1
cartman308
Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 1999
Posts: 49
I have a factory Ruger M-77 RBZ (stainless, laminated) in .308 WIN. I want to tighten up my groups. Typically i shot it off of a Harris Bi-pod, producing groups from 1-1/2" to 1" @ 100 yards. The scope is a Simmons 4.5x14x40 AO. I think my biggest problem is flinching(anticipating recoil). I will add a Pachemyr Decelorator recoil pad to aleviate this prob in a few days. I would like to know what other steps could i take to tighten things up a bit. I know the rifle is capable of sub-moa performance if only i were. Do you guys have any thoughts?
Would match grade ammo help?
What about cryo treatment?
What about an aftermarket trigger?
Any other suggestion?
Thanx ahead for the assistance
cartman308

------------------
.308 WIN: The ONLY cartridge you will EVER need!
cartman308 is offline  
Old June 30, 1999, 03:44 PM   #2
chucko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 1999
Posts: 151
The best way I found to get over my flinching was to always find the guy at the range shooting the loudest gun the shoot next to him. Every time he shoots, you'll flinch. After a while you'll get over it. Try wearing foam ear plugs inside your ear muffs. Also you might want to look into a padded shooting jacket, or one of the strap on shoulder pads if the recoil is bothering you that much. After a lot of practice, you'll get used to the noise and recoil and it just won't bother you any more.

Chuck
chucko is offline  
Old June 30, 1999, 05:02 PM   #3
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,598
Cartman 308. I like your opinion. I like the .308 too. A great round, not to appreciated by the "egg-spurts" in the gun rags.
With that said, I assume your rifle is a MKII with Ruger lawyer-proof trigger. I have heard that some gunsmiths can improve it. Timney makes replacement triggers. Free floating the barrel can help. That's the good news. Now for the bad.
I bought, years ago, a Ruger 77 in 7x57 Mauser. It was a used gun. Turned out the extractor failed. Ruger said send the gun back. I did. They sent me a letter stating that because the barrel had been free-floated. I told them I bought the rifle used and that was the way I got it. No matter, you need a new stock, $200 please, no fix otherwise. I told them to send it back. I had a Mauser extractor laying around and fixed it myself. About that time, synthetic stock were starting to become popular on sporting rifles so I put it in a Ramline. Groups went from about 1.5 inches to .75 to .875 inches. If you go a new trigger, make sure you can put the old one back it you should have to return it to the factory. Also, no alterations to the metal in putting the new trigger in. Ruger is real strict on all this. I later sold the rifle. Neded the money to buy something else.
By the way, I had to send in a Ruger #1 that had what I felt was a bad barrel. (confirmed by gunsmith.) I sent it to them. When it came back, I could not recognize the gun. The only origional part left was the receiver.
I don't understand your recoil problem. Are you using hearing protection? The reason I ask, is I had a Remington 660 in .308, and it beat me to death. I got hearing protectors when I discovered a serious hearing loss due to noise. The next time I shot that .308, it was a pussycat. It was the sharp muzzle blast from the 20 inch barrel that was doing me the bad deed.
Match ammo might give you slightly better groups. Maybe. If you reload, you can experiment with bullet seating depth, powder charges, etc.

My opinon of the 77? Well, I used one to build up a .375x338 Magnum wildcat that will do anything the .375 H&H will do. Nuff said?
Let us know how you work out.
Paul B.
Paul B. is offline  
Old July 1, 1999, 02:32 PM   #4
Cheapo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 1998
Posts: 986
Since you didn't say what ammo gives you 1 to 1.5-inch groups, I can't say whether you should expect an improvement by going with match ammo.

Most modern factory hunting bullet stuff would be expected to do at least what you're getting. Match may or may not improve on that. Some premium stuff is match-accurate out of some guns (At .75 to $1.00+ a round, it better be!)

If you're shooting FMJ factory, military surplus, or commercial reloads with FMJ bullets, you will almost certainly do noticeably better with match ammo.

Mental focus on front sight/scope reticle and trigger control can overcome flinch quite effectively and without too much time spent, if you're firing slowly and deliberately. Ball-and-dummy practice helps a lot as well.

Acclimating yourself to the noise factor (hearing protection ON!) by positioning yourself next to the .458 Mag on the line is also a very good idea. Most flinch is a response to both the noise and recoil--surprisingly, as noted above, more to the noise.
Cheapo is offline  
Old July 1, 1999, 09:55 PM   #5
cartman308
Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 1999
Posts: 49
the ammo i used was remington core-lokt and federal premium balistic tip (both 150 gr.).
my hearing protection consists of ear plug, don't have a set of muffs, but the gun is fairly light and bruises my sholulder every time. thats the reason that im going to have a Pachemyr Decelorator Triple Magnum recoil pad installed.
Do you guys have any thought on cryogenic treatments? 300 below advertises that their treatment WILL improve groups. Any thoughts?
cartman308 is offline  
Old July 1, 1999, 10:11 PM   #6
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,348
First, my snide remark of the evening: A .30-'06 is a .308 that grew up.

Anyway. Install a Timney trigger. They can be had for around $70 or so. (I got sticker shock when I bought one to replace Mr Ruger's tort-liability trigger on my .223. I'll never buy another new Ruger rifle, unless they knock off $70 bucks for a "real" trigger.)

I've had almost as good a result with Federal ammo as with my handloads...

Stock: Check for free-float (thin piece of paper, etc.) from receiver ring to within one inch of forearm tip. If not, make it so.

At the forearm tip, make it free-float, with about a dollar-bill's worth of free-play. Free-play, not foreplay.

Somebody makes a dealie that you install into the stock, with nylon screws to adjust tension against the barrel. If you can't find those, shim out the free-play with wax- paper, where it takes about a five-pound pull to slip the layer(s) into place.

Trim paper with razor blade. Shoot several quick shots to make wax stick. This has worked for me on umpteen different cartridges/guns...It's the po' boys rebedding system.

Buena suerte, Art
Art Eatman is online now  
Old July 3, 1999, 12:11 AM   #7
statesman
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 1999
Posts: 3
Cartman: I agree with ART. I have accurized a couple of M77 MKII's. First, float the barrel, from about 1.5 inches forward of the recoil lug all the way out. Then spend about $70 for a Timney or Dayton-Traister adjustable trigger. Set the trigger at a weight that you feel safe and comfortable with. I like mine about 3.5 pounds. I think that you will like the results.

PS: Have a gunsmith install the trigger, unless you are patient, and very familiar with trigger operation. A poor installation of an aftermarket trigger can lead to a dangerous situation.
statesman is offline  
Old July 3, 1999, 02:05 AM   #8
Long Path
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 1999
Location: N. Texas
Posts: 5,888
Here's another vote for a Timney trigger. Ruger sets theirs up so that you CAN'T adjust them without basically remanufacturing them.

Cryo treatment-- No. It costs too much for very tiny results. I would recommend it only for the benchrest shooter who had already custom-built everything else and was looking for another adjustment. If the barrel was properly heat-treated during manufacture, the heat-treatment actually makes a much larger change in the accuracy.

You wrote:
"my hearing protection consists of ear plug, don't have a set of muffs..."
NOT good enough!!! Go to WalMart (not K-Rosie) and buy a set of [b]MUFFS! These things only cost from $8.00 to $14.00, and do so much more than the plugs do. You're shooting a high-powered rifle, here. (no, it's not an '06, but your ears don't care!)
One thing that the muffs do is help keep the shockwave that emits from the barrel off of the exterior ear. This makes a huge diference. You just can't help but shoot better.

Have it glass pillar-bedded. This is relatively cheap for what it does.

Make certain your mounts and rings are properly installed and tightened. You wouldn' believe how much grief that one basic re-check would have saved me on a couple of occasions.

Just buy some premium factory-- theirs is now getting to be as good as what I can reload in new brass. If you reload, pay attention to your case length and neck size only your brass from that rifle.
----------------

Finally, the way I got better accuracy out of my M-77...

I bought a M-700 Remington, and shot it instead.

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited July 03, 1999).]
Long Path is offline  
Old July 3, 1999, 10:46 AM   #9
flatlander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 1999
Posts: 120
cartman308: If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't spend the money on the cyro treatment. The groups your factory barrel/bedding is giving you with factory ammo is not half bad, despite what gun writers in most of the magazines who regularly shoot 1/2" groups with un-tuned rifles say. You can realistically expect better results in shrinking your groups by working up handloads to fit your individual barrel/chamber than by any other mechanical efforts, since the rifle is already shooting pretty fair groups. The exception would be the trigger; a good clean 2.5lb pull is a big help. By all means, get a good set of muffs to go with your plugs; I wear both when shooting my AR's to help prevent further hearing loss. And go right ahead and have the recoil pad installed; it could be quite an advantage in helping to cure the flinching, along with the muffs. One thing I noticed after shooting 223's a lot - when I picked up one of my bigger rifles(280Rem.-375H&H Mag.) the recoil seems a lot worse since I had conditioned myself to the recoil of the 223. If you had the opportunity to shoot a rifle of heavier recoil than your 308, it might make the 308 seem kinda tame when you next shoot it.
flatlander is offline  
Old July 6, 1999, 01:48 PM   #10
cartman308
Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 1999
Posts: 49
Thanx guys for you input!
I am gonna venture to Wallie World tonite to get some muffs, but the recoil pad will hafta wait till after my vacation.
I am gonna cunsult a gunsmith on the Timmney trigger(i have heard ALOT of good about them.
BTW--i shoot a '06 regularly and the .308 i have seems to have a sharper recoil to it. The .30-06 has never bruised me and the .308 leaves me black and blue after every session. Only reasononing i can think of is the fiber composition of the two stocks. Plus the .308 is about 3/4 of a pound lighter.
Thanx again for your help :-)
If you all think of anything else i may be able to do to the rifle feel free to email me:-)
cartman308

------------------
.308 WIN: The ONLY cartridge you will EVER need!
cartman308 is offline  
Old November 20, 2009, 10:43 AM   #11
swordfish7@live.com
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2009
Posts: 1
Throw the scope away and get you a decent one. Bushnell 3200 is a good choice if you don't want to spend alot. Free float the barrel, lighten up the trigger, get some good ammo such as Black Hills. Practice practice practice. .308 is not alot of recoil so I would say just shoot it and get used to it.
swordfish7@live.com is offline  
Old November 20, 2009, 11:19 AM   #12
fyimo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2009
Posts: 360
The new recoil pad is a good thing and I don't think the cryo treatment will help you much. A trigger job would help your shooting a bunch as a good crisp trigger at 3 pounds really helps. If you have a Ruger Mark II you might want to consider an aftermarket trigger and have it installed and adjusted to your liking. The tang safety Ruger Model 77 have an adjustable trigger for trigger weight only and it's the allen screw in the bottom of the trigger.

On Ruger Model 77 rifles the action screws need to be tightened a certain way and that is 95 FT/LBS on the front screw and the two other screws tightened until snug and the backed off 1/8 turn.

Ammo will affect accuracy so I'd try several brands and see which one it likes the best and also make sure you scope screws are thight. Lastly I would consider a better scope and the Bushnell Elite 3200 or 4200 series is a good one as is a Leupold Vari X II. You can get a used Vari X II off of Ebay in 3x9x40mm for $200 and they have a no questions asked warranty that fixes or replaces them whether you are the first ot tenth owner.
fyimo is offline  
Old November 20, 2009, 11:41 AM   #13
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,348
Er, uh, this thread is ten years old.
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is online now  
Old November 20, 2009, 11:48 AM   #14
sserdlihc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2008
Location: S.C.
Posts: 1,434
Quote:
Er, uh, this thread is ten years old.
__________________
Familiarity breeds contempt, while rarity wins admiration. Aupleius
If someone doesn't like you, that's their problem! Milton Childress
sserdlihc is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09305 seconds with 9 queries