The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Harley Nolden Memorial Institute for Firearms Research

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 1, 2002, 10:22 AM   #1
G3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2000
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 138
Temperature of Gases at Point Blank Range?

Hello All,

Does anyone know how hot the gases and the projectile are when fired at contact distance? I'm interested in the pistol rounds such as .45 acp, .357 mag, 9x19 mm, .38 spl., and 22 lr.

Thank you.
G3 is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 05:14 PM   #2
Blackhawk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2001
Posts: 5,044
The gas temperature can be determined pretty accurately by color, but you need a color chart for the powder formulation, and I don't know whether or not powder makers provide them. My guess is in the 1500 degrees Farenheit range

The bullet temperature is harder to estimate because it depends primarily on friction and extrusion heating as it travels down the barrel and secondarily by some heating from the combustion gasses. My guess is in the 200 degrees Farenheit range
Blackhawk is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 07:51 PM   #3
hansolo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2002
Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA
Posts: 503
Hot enough to REALLY hurt
__________________
PROUD TFL ALUMNUS
MOLON LABE!
hansolo is offline  
Old September 1, 2002, 10:03 PM   #4
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,951
Gasses at contact range are hot enough to scorch cloth, but I doubt a person on the receiving end would worry much about the heat. The bullet or the blast itself (as in a blank) will do far more damage than the heat of the burning powder.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old September 2, 2002, 06:53 AM   #5
444
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2000
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,727
Not sure why you ask and I don't know the answer to your question. But, when a firearm is fired at contact distance to a human, the propellent gases following the bullet into the wound cause significant damage not from heat but from the ?pressure?. I am not sure that is the right word for it. Blast might be better.
444 is offline  
Old September 2, 2002, 08:57 AM   #6
G3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2000
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 138
Thanks for the replies. I was hoping the info maybe in Hatcher's Notebook.

The reason I ask is that there is debate on another forum about high temperatures degrading the perfomance of Spectra Shield and other synthectic fibers that are used in body armor. I was curious how the newer fabrics would hold up to a muzzle contact gunshot. Supposedly, kevlar will retain is strength even in very high temperatures.
G3 is offline  
Old September 2, 2002, 06:53 PM   #7
Blackhawk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2001
Posts: 5,044
Quote:
Gasses at contact range are hot enough to scorch cloth,
Actually, they're hot enough to vaporize cloth, which has an ignition temperature in the 400-500 degrees Farenheit range.
Blackhawk is offline  
Old September 2, 2002, 11:48 PM   #8
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,951
I smell an experiment coming up; maybe tomorrow if I get time. I'll try several pistol calibers, with and without bullets.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old September 3, 2002, 12:14 AM   #9
Blackhawk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2001
Posts: 5,044
The ones with bullets are going to be best, I'll bet. Powders don't burn right unless they're under pressure, and the temperature is a function of pressure.

I've fired primed brass only into a towel, which resulted in holes and scorching without any ignition of the surrounding area or smoke distinguishable as being from the towel.

There's another experiment I'd like to perform, but I don't have what I need. I'd like to know how exciting cooking off a cartridge base down on a hotplate is. Maybe suspend a piece of plywood a few feet above it. I'm betting that the plywood will be mostly scorched and maybe dented from the slug but nothing major from the slug. My curiousity was aroused in a thread about dropping live cartridges on concrete and, in the unlikely event of a primer strike, how dangerous and spectacular the round going off would be. There's a possibility that the primer alone will discharge the bullet and the majority of the powder will just burn slowly as in the open air.
Blackhawk is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07261 seconds with 9 queries