The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 31, 2000, 07:09 AM   #26
oberkommando
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 1999
Posts: 1,157
Dave no need for the marines just one Flamethrower (the ultimate close range gun)

As to the handgun preferance over the shotgun I remember a test of handgun and shotgun "masters class shooters" from ready position, and holster for the handguns, the shotguns won everytime.
As to large pellet count 3" no.4 with 41 pellets just one should do it. If you are very close and dont want to penetrate the walls much maybe rock salt. A buddy of mine shot a 3/4" piece of plywood at about a yard and the rat hole was impressive, and the shot that left was just a bunch of powder on his fireplace (the garage side).

If you need more power to penetrate 3" 000 will get through most and retain energy farther out than all the rest. Past 25 yards would definityly prefer slugs over handgun.
oberkommando is offline  
Old July 31, 2000, 10:49 AM   #27
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
We may be splitting hairs here, in debates about the best size. Southern deer hunters have led the search for improvements in Buck peformance. ALL buck now patterns much better than it used to. Buffering, load development,
rounder shot,harder or plated shot, have all helped the patterns stay tight. Shooting old buck, say 1960s or 70s vintage, shows just how far we've come.

The key is just like slug research. Buy a bunch of those little 5 packs of varied brands and sizes, test it, and then buyamessa whatever works best for its specified mission.

Anything requiring ranges past 15 yards, I'd prefer big pellets. Inside, it all hits like a solid projectile anyway,so maybe a 00 or 000 load for when one may have to go outside,(like in civil disturbances, catastrophes) and maybe bird shot inside to cut down on penetration.....
Dave McC is offline  
Old August 1, 2000, 02:33 AM   #28
Dave T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2000
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 1,143
I did some research for my Department and found the Federal Premium 12 pellet 00 Buck (2 3/4") to be both the most effective and the best patterning of all loads tested. It was very impressive.

Dave T
PCSD Ret
Dave T is offline  
Old August 1, 2000, 06:37 AM   #29
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
Dave, how many shotguns did you use in that test? IME, each one may "Prefer" a different load.Some loads do do better than others overall, but hardnfast results are slippery.

In a perfect world, each dept would ISSUE a shotgun,correctly stocked,to an officer who would test for the best ammo for that weapon and then use it....
Dave McC is offline  
Old August 1, 2000, 11:32 PM   #30
Solitar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2000
Location: Solitary
Posts: 717
Outside the home in a defense situation against a small bunched-up crowd of angry, drunk, stoned thugs (such as when the bar across the street would empty out and come en-masse over to help their buddy bust windows or break heads - as perhaps in Seattle or LA during the riots) THEN I would want as many 9-pellet 000 buck 3" loads as the magazine could hold. A possibly better choice would be an AK with a two-hundred round drum or a few grenades BUT given that I'm limited to a shotgun, then I want to engage them at 20 yards with enough penetration and spread to have adequate effect (12 pellet 00 buck 3" Sellier&Bellot would effect a broader pattern, but potential overpenetration of 000 buck pellets would NOT be a disadvantage with such a mob).
Solitar is offline  
Old August 2, 2000, 12:37 AM   #31
DaMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 2000
Posts: 222
I've experimented with EVERY size of buckshot in both reloads and factory cartridges. From 7 feet to 150 yds.! I've come to the same conclusion as the commercial ammo manufacturers. The 9 x pellet 00Buck "tactical load" is the way to go in the 12ga. A "scaled down" load of 9 x #1 Buck, would be my choice for the 20ga. Unfortunately this is not available in a factory load.

Regards! DaMan
DaMan is offline  
Old August 2, 2000, 07:12 PM   #32
Dave T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2000
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 1,143
DaveMacc,

I first used my personal 870. Then tried the same tests with several departmental 870, one High Standard and an 1897 Winchester Riot Gun.

Since retiring I've used it in my M3S90 (my current defensive shotgun) and another 870. It has consistantly patterned better than the Federal Premium 9 pellet load and both of those will outshoot most other 00 Buck loads I've tried.

Dave T
PCSD Ret
Dave T is offline  
Old August 2, 2000, 10:07 PM   #33
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
Thanks, Dave. I may be behind the curve again. Haven't done much 00 or testing since retiring.
Dave McC is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07622 seconds with 9 queries