The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 11, 1999, 06:57 PM   #1
pete80
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 4, 1999
Posts: 454
Looking to purchase one of these guns because of the great price tag and excellent reputation for reliability. Does anyone own one or have any first hand experience with this particular gun?

Also, where might I find a factory Remington mag extension and at what cost?

Any information would be appreciated!
pete80 is offline  
Old November 11, 1999, 08:59 PM   #2
B Shipley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 1998
Posts: 719
Yes, I own one, but haven't shot it much. I put forty or so rounds through it with no problem, brand new. I bought some goodies for it to make it more to my liking, however and am waiting to get it back from the smith (drill and tap for swivel and remove mag tube dimples).



I put on an 18" rifle sight Rem. police barrel, a rear sling swivel, and a scattergun two round flush with muzzle mag extension with sling mount (better than the stupid factory rig that sticks past the barrel a half inch).



I would, perhaps, recommend getting the police model shotgun from a police supply dealer if you want this stuff out of the box. These guns have no mag restrictions and should have swivels already. The rifle sight barrel is an option. I would guess synthetic stocks are too. The police guns are more severely (matte) parkerized, and are a little rough.



The police barrel I bought has a strange color finish on the barrel ring that slides over the mag tube, which could be unparkerized (why spend extra $$ to make it look nice when it is going to be issued and stuck in a cruiser?) and the brazing is apparent arond the sights and barrel ring.



Personally, I like the slick parkerizing of the HD, but the rifle sights are an improvement in my eyes (and for them, too), so I think the police barrel is worth it and its cosmetics not too apparent.
B Shipley is offline  
Old November 12, 1999, 06:15 AM   #3
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
I'm assuming you want the 870 for HD. Shame to limit it to that, the piece's one great all round shotgun.

Been shooting 870s since roughly 1958. There's 4 here at Casa McC, now, of various configurations. Built a couple of them at the kitchen table. Here's a few suggestions.

First, the stuff best left to a qualified smith. While the 870s usually come with an acceptable slap trigger, the best work can be done,especially with slugs, with a trigger worked down to maybe 3-4 lbs.

While the trigger's getting tweaked,have the smith lengthen the forcing cone. This keeps pellets in the pattern and slightly reduces recoil.

Next, if you are barrelchested and/or the weapon will be fired by a woman also, use some sandpaper to slightly round off the toe of the recoil pad.This stops it from digging into soft tissues and reduces the chances of getting the flinches...

As for the accessories, don't be in a hurry. The next thing to buy is lots of ammo and some range time. Shoot some trap,skeet or sporting clays to work the weapon in and improve your handling of same.

As for extended mags,I like them for reasons other than mo' shots before reloading.

Face it, any A-S scenario that can't be resolved with 4 rounds probably needs backup rather than two more rounds in the tube.

But, the extra weight of the extended tube helps recoil control, and clamping the tube to the bbl oft shrinks slug groups dramatically,effectively stiffening the bbl.

A caveat, some folks think a shotgun can substitute for shooting skills. Inside 25 yards, the shotgun is perhaps the most effective available, if the shooter knows what he/she's doing. If other folks may need to use the weapon, ensure they know what they're doing,and provide alternatives for a spouse or grown child that doesn't like shotguns.

Finally, I've shot hundreds of rounds from various positions. At more than contact distances, I'll shoulder the weapon. Pistol grips are egregious, stay with a full stock.

Hope this addresses your concerns...
Dave McC is offline  
Old November 12, 1999, 11:25 AM   #4
voodoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 1999
Posts: 140
I recently picked up an 870 HD, too. It's my third 870.

I knew before buying it that I would soon be customizing it. So, the first thing I did was call Hans Vang. He told me that the HD was a great gun as-is, but "a perfect gun" to start with for customizing.

That sold me.

voodoo is offline  
Old November 12, 1999, 12:46 PM   #5
pete80
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 4, 1999
Posts: 454
Great, thanks all for your information!
pete80 is offline  
Old November 12, 1999, 01:05 PM   #6
CMOS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 10, 1999
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 1,417
Dave, can you tell me a bit more about this "forcing cone" modification. I have an 870 Marine Magnum and a M1 SuperDuper 90. I shoot shotguns frequently.

So, what's the issue with the forcing cone?

Thanks,
CMOS

------------------
Join GOA, NRA, LEAA and vote.
CMOS is offline  
Old November 12, 1999, 07:53 PM   #7
B Shipley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 1998
Posts: 719
I believe that the deal is the lengthened forcing cone allows the pellets more time to align themselves with the inside of the cylindrical portion of the barrel (that nearest the muzzle).



This, supposedly, helps the patterns and it reduces some of the pressure inside the barrel by reducing pellet congestion, thus reducing recoil. This latter part is widely accepted as valid, but I've seen anecdotal evidence that indicates that patterns tighten up also.
B Shipley is offline  
Old November 12, 1999, 09:34 PM   #8
Ewok
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 26, 1999
Posts: 380
Hans Vang has lots of info on the results of lengthening the forcing cone at his site http://www.vangcomp.com

------------------
Ewok is offline  
Old November 13, 1999, 06:06 AM   #9
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
The forcing cone is in effect, a funnel that the load travels through to get into the bore. By making it longer, pellets or slugs are less distorted,and the spike in the pressure curve is shorter.Better pattern, less recoil.

It does NOT tighten the choke. Since the pellets are rounder, they stay in the pattern, and thicken it, but the pattern stays the same size ,at a given distance, it would be otherwise.

Hope this clarifies it for you...
Dave McC is offline  
Old November 14, 1999, 07:23 PM   #10
B Shipley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 1998
Posts: 719
I've seen a post, here or at gunspot, about the vang comp system. The poster stated they were getting tighter patterns, and posted a before and after spread. Obviously, opening up the forcing cone has no effect on choke. But, as was said here, the pellets experience fewer collisions with each other and the barrel walls, hence are rounder and more aerodynamically perfect.



Extrapolating this, we may assume that patterns at the muzzle are the same, but after they travel a given distance, the superior aerodynamic properties of the Vang pellets kick in and their tendency to drift around is reduced. Voila! Tighter patterns. BS? Maybe, but it wasn't my BS.
B Shipley is offline  
Old November 14, 1999, 09:56 PM   #11
BULaw
Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: SW Virginia
Posts: 36
One other possibility you might consider is buying a used police 870 (doesn't really matter what condition) and sending it to scattergun technologies to be rebuilt. They completely refurbish the shotgun (replace the stock/forend w/ synthetic and many other internal parts) for about $170. Find the Wilson Combat website (scattergun technologies is owned by them) and you can check out all the packages available.

------------------
God Bless America
BULaw is offline  
Old November 15, 1999, 06:48 AM   #12
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
Scattergun Technologies seems to do a fine job, but I wonder just how necessary it is to send them an 870. I've kitchen tabled a couple and am tool challenged, as Tim Allen would say.

About three years ago, the Md Pen closed down and the weapons were surplused. Tower weapons take oneheckova beating, and some were parted out by a gun shop. I picked up a reciever that had been parkerized and adjusted to 3 inch and started putting it together.

Another few dollars bought a trigger group with an acceptable slap trigger,and the shop threw in the most beat up, abused hunk of walnut butt stock you've ever seen. A little flat black paint and swivels fixed that. I had a 21", vent rib bbl left over from the conversion of the previous 870 I'd done(Arlington PD Cruiser gun to Slug gun)with a lengthened forcing cone and tube chokes,some parts,and the old style corncob forearm wood from my first 870.Oh yes, the Mag spring from that first 870 worked fine and a steel follower completed the setup.

Since this was to be a bird gun, I hogged out some wood inside the stock to move the balance forward. I overdid it,and took the mag cap and ground the dome out of it on a belt sander and reblued with cold blue after mounting a swivel stud. The piece balances nicely now and weighs about 6 lbs,10 oz if I recall correctly. A little aluminum foil shims the stock and takes about 3/8" of drop out, fitting the stock to me very well.

About 6-10 hours total was spent on this project,and cost was no more than $150. While there's prettier shotguns on the clays range, it shoots fine and with perfect reliability so far.

Hope this helps...
Dave McC is offline  
Old November 16, 1999, 08:32 PM   #13
B Shipley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 1998
Posts: 719
I would buy a base gun then put on the parts I liked, be they from scattergun or anyone else. I think scattergun shotguns seem way overpriced. I just bought the parts I wanted for my 870 from them, then installed them or had a smith do it.



I see nothing they could do to the action to be worth the difference. I lightly stoned the action (rails, bolt carrier, breech face) of the gun but left the trigger group alone, since the trigger was crisp and creep free at ~ 5lbs.
B Shipley is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09441 seconds with 9 queries