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Old October 11, 1999, 09:34 PM   #1
Bennett Richards
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I was wondering how one would modify an 870 so that it fires each time it is pumped as long as the trigger is held down? ( meaning you do not have to release and pull the trigger each time you wish to fire...)
I heard that one Ithica pump will do this as well as another model Remington pump.. ( which I can not recall.. I think 12...)
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Old October 11, 1999, 10:55 PM   #2
oberkommando
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Yes it can be so modified, was told by hans vang, but he did not recomend it, don't really know why, he did'nt say how, but win model 97, and old model 12's I believe are this way stock, probably have to alter disconector if there is one, I'm thinking of 1911 pistol which has disconect, sorry not much help.

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Old October 12, 1999, 04:11 AM   #3
Woody
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Yes you can, but no smith in their right mind would do this for a customer. Even if you are very carefull you will have some accidental discharges with this done to your shotgun. If your reaaaallllly want a shotgun that you can slamfire look for an old Winchester 1200 police trade in gun. Try a few some will do it some won't. This is why most agencys are now issuing new Remingtons or new Winchesters. To many cops blew holes in the roofs of there patrol cars.
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Old October 12, 1999, 10:35 AM   #4
jimmy
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Yes, some older models of shotgun would fire when shucked with the trigger held back, including the Winchester Model 1897, as OK says. This could be a useful feature on trench guns in combat, although I can't think of any other practical application. At any rate, intentionally or unintentionally, it was part of the basic design of these guns.

I personally would not modify an 870 to defeat the disconnector, in part because the 870 was not designed that way (I prefer not to second-guess gun designers and manufacturers, figuring that they know more about their guns than anyone else), and in part because it would almost certainly increase the likelihood of an unpleasant surprise in the form of an AD.

For me, if I wanted a shotgun that would fire when pumped with the trigger held back, I'd look for a gun that was made that way and acquire it in addition to my 870, rather than modify my 870. 'Can't have too many shotguns anyway.

JMHO.

[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited October 12, 1999).]
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Old October 14, 1999, 09:49 PM   #5
Gun Docc
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I would reccomend not to try this on an 870 remington for safety reasons.
you would be much better off getting a shotgun that was designed to do this from the factory and they are several that will do so .

Winchester model 1897 pumps
Ithaca model 37 pumps
Browning BPS pumps
Winchester 1300 pumps

all of the above mentioned guns will shoot when the trigger is held down and just pumped
after each round is fired

the old Winchester 1897 pumps were reffered to as the ''ole cornshukker'' 6 shots in 6 seconds was what the old catalogs used to advertise for the gun

hope this has been of help to you


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Old October 15, 1999, 12:29 AM   #6
B Shipley
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So, a brand new Win 1300 has no disconnector?



Haed to believe that their lawyers let them do it still.



What about a model 12?
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Old October 15, 1999, 02:17 AM   #7
Woody
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Shipley all the new shotguns have the trigger disconnector in them. Remington, Mossberg, Winchester, Ithica. We were talking about certain older guns that may or may not have the disconnector. The only way to see if a gun has the disconnector or not is to dry pump it with the trigger pulled. As far as I know Remington was designed with the disconnector. Some 20 or 30 year old shotguns don't have one but you can't tell until you check them out. One gun that I know for sure doesn't have the disconnector is the old model 12 Winchester.
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Old October 15, 1999, 05:19 AM   #8
45King
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Gun Doc, does the current version of the BPS have a disconnector? I'm an 870 fan, but have owned an Ithaca M37, a riot version, which was very sweet, and the BPS looks to be one of the strongest shotguns of any action type manufactured. Look at that milled receiver, and then compare it to the receiver of any other shotgun on the market; looks like you could drive a Mack truck over it and not damage it.

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Old October 15, 1999, 10:09 PM   #9
Art Eatman
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The lack of a disconnector has never made one iota of difference for me with my Model 12 Winchester.

I've talked to John Satterwhite--whose expertise with the shotgun puts him in the top one-tenth of one percent of ALL shooters--and he converts his 870s to operate like the Model 12.

Practice, practice, practice...Ya gotta be more than the proverbial "casual shooter".

, Art
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Old October 16, 1999, 12:47 AM   #10
Wallew
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Gentlemen,
As a smith, and I am, the liability issue alone would make any modification that removes the disconnector out of any firearm a practice unworthy of mention. I personally would NEVER want to talk to the widow or worse yet her lawyer about WHY I removed any factory part from ANY firearm to make it LESS SAFE. I don't care how 'good' you are with your firearms, less safe is less safe. The reason a disconnector was added many years ago had nothing to do with liability or lawyers, it was done to simply make all firearms less susceptible to accidental discharge. It can still happen with modern day firearms, but it's really difficult unless the firearm has been modified or the internal parts are extremely worn. I won't own one, sell one or work on one that someone wants me to modify. I tell them to take it to the back alley and throw it away, as they will be better off than doing that modification.
As to the 'top one tenth shooter'. I have a short illustration. In Colorado Springs, less than five years ago there was an 'Olympic class shooter'. Made the team and everything. One day, while showing off to some of his friends in his own home, he put his own 1911 to his head and pulled the trigger. They buried him two days later. This is a gruesome but true story. You gets what you pays for.... so to speak. Or maybe stupid is as stupid does.
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Old October 16, 1999, 12:50 AM   #11
Wallew
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One more item. If you like playing with slam fire weapons, consider a full auto Mac or other full auto weapon that is still currently designed to slam fire. They are a lot more fun and a little safer.
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Old October 16, 1999, 01:14 PM   #12
Art Eatman
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Wallew: As to the liability aspect for a gunsmith, you are absolutely correct. And per your example, a high degree of skill does not mean that God checked off the little box marked "Common Sense" on the Expert License.

I just now dug out my Model 12 and cycled it with the trigger held back. It does not "slam fire". The firing pin is not released until the gun is either in-battery or so close to the in-battery condition that the shell cannot recoil against an unlocked breech. But you can feel and hear the separate motions of locking into battery and the release of the firing pin.

I admit to some brain-fade events of the "Oops! It WAS loaded!" types over the past half-century. Because the three guns were pointed away from anything of significance, nothing happened. But I have never had any problem from an inherent design nor from a rationally-done modification.

Regards, Art
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