The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 30, 1999, 08:17 PM   #1
jwong
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 1998
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 255
This has probably been asked in the past before, but I would like to bring it up again. What do you guys think about pump shotguns vs. autos? What are the pros and cons of both actions? Thanks in advance...
jwong is offline  
Old August 31, 1999, 03:10 AM   #2
DOCSpanky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 1999
Location: Ashland City, TN
Posts: 779
I like pumps, no wasted power on cycling the action, and the sound of a pump being charged is usually enough to ward off all but the dumbest hoodlums!


------------------
DOCSpanky
"Walk softly and carry a big stick, perferably one of the 12 guage variety!"
DOCSpanky is offline  
Old August 31, 1999, 07:34 AM   #3
leedesert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 1999
Location: Ga
Posts: 633
AAhh yes, the universal language of sanity. After hearing such a wonderful noise all humans instantly become upstanding descent citizens.

------------------
"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16

leedesert is offline  
Old August 31, 1999, 07:57 AM   #4
chucko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 1999
Posts: 151
Pump Pros:
1.Simple and less prone to mechanical failure.
2.Less maintanence

Pump Cons:
1.Take more practice to use.
2.More difficult for small or weak people to operate.
3.More recoil

Semi Pros:
1.Easier to operate
2.Faster follow-up shots
3.Easier for smaller ro weaker people to operate.
4.Less recoil

Semi Cons:
1.More sensative to the ammo used in them.
2.More maintenance

OK Some one else continue it from there.

Chuck
chucko is offline  
Old August 31, 1999, 09:16 AM   #5
Skorzeny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 1999
Posts: 1,938
I would add that semi-automatic shotguns have less recoil ONLY IF it is gas-operated like the Remington 11-87. These, by the way, require a bit more care and cleaning than pumps or recoil-operated semi-autos.

If it is recoil operated like the Beretta 1201 or Benelli, it is going to recoil much like a pump. On the positive side, these are as easier to clean as pumps (some say easier).

Skorzeny

------------------
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu



[This message has been edited by Skorzeny (edited August 31, 1999).]
Skorzeny is offline  
Old August 31, 1999, 10:30 AM   #6
chucko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 1999
Posts: 151
Skorzeny,

I agree
chucko is offline  
Old August 31, 1999, 06:29 PM   #7
bergie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 1999
Posts: 567
Generally, pumps will also have a larger magazine capacity than a semi-auto. Most pumps will hold 4 or 5 in the tube with the plug out, while many autos only hold two. While I have never emptied my old High Standard pump (6 total) while hunting pheasants, there have been a couple of times I have either emptied or only had one shell left in my Winchester 1400 when a late flushing rooster came up after we thought all the action was over. Pumps are also easier to accesorize/customize for defense with extended mag tubes, stocks, etc. if you are into that sort of thing.
B.
bergie is offline  
Old August 31, 1999, 08:32 PM   #8
K80Geoff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 1998
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,640
Semi autos are for wimps

Seriously, autos are very prone to jamming when you need them the most. I shoot a lot of Sporting clays and constantly see fellow shooters have problems with guns eating parts and jamming. If you use the gun a lot learn to replace the common parts like seals and various rods and thingies inside.

Remingtons like to eat seals, the O rings around the magazine tube. Berettas like to break a rod that has something to do with the bolt. Brownings also have problems.

I suppose the recoil operated guns are more reliable but they kick worse than doubles.

Go ahead and get a pump, the most reliable gun next to a good double. If the recoil is too much consider one of the many recoil reducing devices on the market or learn to shoot lighter loads.

Give me a good o/u or sxs anyday.

Geoff Ross

------------------
Damn!...I need more practice!
K80Geoff is offline  
Old September 1, 1999, 01:58 AM   #9
Dorcas
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 1999
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 194
Hello all,

Two points I haven't seen pointed out here are that 1) an auto can be used one handed if absolutely necessary and 2) pumps can be very difficult to use in some postions (especially prone).

bkm

------------------
Anyone worth shooting, is worth shooting twice...
Dorcas is offline  
Old September 1, 1999, 06:22 AM   #10
Cat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 1999
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 467
I keep hearing about the gas guns eating "O" rings. I don't shoot trap or skeet anymore, but I have NEVER seen a Remington eat an "O" ring.
In approximately the last 30 years, I have owned three 1100s and one 11-87 and have never lost an "O" ring. I wore out the first two 1100s. I have fired many thousands of rounds through each.
I shoot my shotguns in pin matches, steel target speed matches and "assault" type matches. I clean my shotguns about every 250-300 rounds and when I do, I wipe the "O" ring off. I don't even have a spare in the house.
I don't doubt that the "o" rings may break. I have just heard about it more from people who shoot recoil operated shotguns and pumps than anyone shooting a "gas" gun.
I must be the exception.
Cat
Cat is offline  
Old September 1, 1999, 07:53 AM   #11
DOCSpanky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 1999
Location: Ashland City, TN
Posts: 779
Good point Cat, but you know you have jinxed yourself now, better go buy an O-ring, cause yours will break soon!

------------------
DOCSpanky
"Walk softly and carry a big stick, perferably one of the 12 guage variety!"
DOCSpanky is offline  
Old September 1, 1999, 09:41 AM   #12
chucko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 1999
Posts: 151
One thing I just thought about. Maybe a Semi owner can answer.

If you fired a semi from the hip or any other postion where the stock doesn't have something solid to push against, are they more likely to short cycle and jam?

I would think since the entire shotgun would be moving to the rear to absorb the recoil the action may not cycle correctly.
Sort of the same idea as limp wristing a Glock, but on a bigger scale.

Any thoughts?

Chuck
chucko is offline  
Old September 1, 1999, 10:50 AM   #13
DOCSpanky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 1999
Location: Ashland City, TN
Posts: 779
Things that make you go HMMMM!

------------------
DOCSpanky
"Walk softly and carry a big stick, perferably one of the 12 guage variety!"
DOCSpanky is offline  
Old September 2, 1999, 01:55 AM   #14
Long Path
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 1999
Location: N. Texas
Posts: 5,888
Chucko--
I was started on 1100's at age 10, and have hunted with one ever since. Never, ever, have "limp wristed" an auto shotgun. I don't believe you can, with normal field loads.

There's just too much mass in the actual gun to do this. Remember that more than half of the Glock's weight is in the slide, which travels back and forth. Compare that to the tiny fraction of an overal shotgun's weight is comprised by the bolt. Also, the entirety of a shotgun's mass is longtitudinally-oriented, and is thus in-line with the bolt-travel, as opposed to a pistol, where an actual fulcrum is encountered at the wrist.

I daresay that you could hang any of the more popular modern shotguns by some fishing line from a tree branch in a sling by the barrel and buttstock, and get them to function by yanking back on the trigger with another piece of line. (Ummmm.. better not try this at home, kids! Pesky little rig might just get away from you, and I just don't advocate firing a gun not firmly in your personal control.... )
Long Path is offline  
Old September 7, 1999, 02:49 AM   #15
Espresso
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 4, 1999
Posts: 119
In addition to Chucko's list on pump's advantage, is you have the capability to use 12 ga. emergency/distress flares.
Espresso is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10036 seconds with 9 queries