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Old June 19, 2002, 04:37 AM   #1
redrider
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deer/elk .284/30-06 loads

I own two big game rifles, a Win. mod. 100 carbine in .284, also a Sears, J.C. Higgins mod. 51-L (HVA action) in 30-06. I handload and I will be hunting deer and elk here in my home state of Washington. I want to bring both guns on both trips for back-up purposes. I want a deer/elk load for the .06 and the .284. I don't own a chrony but I think the .06 with 180g. bullets shoots about 2700fps and the 7mm shoots 150g. at 2700fps. That sounds good, the .06, 180g. for elk and the 7mm, 140g. for deer, but what .06 load for deer and what 7mm load for elk?
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Old June 19, 2002, 08:48 AM   #2
JWC in MS
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redrider,
When thinking of 180g loads for the 30:06 you will be best served using the slower burning powders. If have not worked with the 180 in my 06 in several years, but the last powder I worked with was Reloader 22. There are others in the same range that will also do a good job, H4831-IMR4831 come to mind.
I have personally never loaded for the 284, but have loaded the 280 Remington for many years. Case volume should be quite close, thus I would suggest the same powders for the 284 that I would use in a 280.
That said I will suggest the same powders for the 284 as with the 180's in the 06.
You mentioned 140g bullet in the 284, elk are LARGE animals, using this weight bullet I would use one of the premium bullets, Nosler Partition, Speer Grand Slam or something in that line.
As standard procedure alsways double check any loading info you are given against a good manual.
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Old June 19, 2002, 09:50 AM   #3
Elkslayer
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Redrider, I too usually take two rifles into elk camp. Never know when disaster will strike. Not just me but for someone else I'm hunting with.

If I were you, I would load both of them for elk. Either one will knock the snot out of a deer using your elk load.

I really don't think you want to have your "deer rifle/load" in your hands when the "bull of the woods" appears. This way you will have and use only one load rather than fiddling around swaping out cartridges when one or the other species appears.

However, you didn't say whether the two seasons run simultaneously or not, but if you won't be hunting both at the same time then go ahead and work up two different loads. Just be sure to mark the cartridges using a Sharpie or Magic Marker so you can distinguish elk loads from deer loads. Personnally, I would find that a hassel, I'd just use my elk load on deer.

Hope I didn't misunderstand your question and this helps.

Last edited by Elkslayer; June 19, 2002 at 11:10 AM.
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Old June 19, 2002, 10:22 AM   #4
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A side question Re: Model 100

I have 2 model 100's - a .243 and a .284. The .243 is a deerslayin' son-of-a-gun. My brother and I cut our teeth on this rifle. Can't say enough good stuff about it - one of my favorite rifles.

But the .284. It's probably the least accurate rifle in the closet. If it hadn't belonged to my Grandpa, it've been sold or traded by now. I'm guessing since you hunt with yours that it shoot better than mine. How is accuracy? and any tips on what I might do to get it to shoot "right"?

Thanks,
Trey
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Old June 19, 2002, 12:05 PM   #5
redrider
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I handload for the fun of it, same reason some people tie flies or watch birds, so I don't find it a hassle, it's fun! The seasons are not at the same time. When I go to deer camp I will only have deer loads and in elk camp only elk loads. I have been having good results with imr 4350 in both so I'm not apt to buy a bunch of different powders, once I find a 1" load I am satisfied. My 06 elk load is 56g. imr 4350 -165g gameking but I might switch to 180g. My .284 deer load is 52.5g. imr 4350- 139g. hornady sp. What I am looking for is a deer load for the 06 that is a bit lighter and an elk load for the .284 that is heavier. I have shot a three shot group with the .284 of under 1/2", good enough for me!!!! At either camp I don't expect anything longer than 200 yards.
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Old June 19, 2002, 02:17 PM   #6
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1/2" group from the .284?!?

I guess I always figured it was just a poor cartridge, but

Dang, now I've got a mission
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Old June 20, 2002, 04:32 AM   #7
Northwest Cajun
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Redrider,
When I first started out I had two different loads but I've setteled on one load for both in my '06. 165 grand slams @ 2700 fps. I use a max load of Varget and get outstanding accuracy, 5 shots 1.5" @ 200yds in a sporterized 1903 Springfield. I use Varget in all my rifles 223,300 savage,308,30-06 & 45-70. You may not get the highest speeds in each caliber but it is very tempature stable. I have worked up some very accurate loads in each and it comes in 8Lb jugs.
What part of the state do you hunt? I've scouted areas in the southern Olympics and in Gifford Pinchot NF but still havent made up my mind yet for this year. I'm waiting to see if I win a special permit tag.

Cajun
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Old June 20, 2002, 08:56 AM   #8
labgrade
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I'd think any of the reputable brands would have a 150 gr bullet suitable for any deer. We had excellent results using Hornady's 130 grs in .270, don't see why that same thing in .30 cal wouldn't work as well.

Far as that GameKing elk bullet, I would bump it up to the 180 just to be sure. We use that in '06 exclusively with excellent results. My own personal preference though ...

Zip experience for the .284, but for elk, I look for the bullet holding together & deep penetration. Using a Banes XBT 165 gr in my short-tube .308 at only 2400 fps. It's taken 3x goodly sized elk so far - excellent results (3 shots = 3 elk).

Settled on the Barnes in this rifle due to the expected lower velocity, but still with the penetration. Pricey, though I only use one a year other than the sighting in. A 150 Barnes X at 2600-2700 fps in that .284 would do elk all day, I'd think.
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Old June 20, 2002, 11:46 PM   #9
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In the 30-06, I use the Barnes "X" bullet, 150 Grains for both. I wouldn't use any other brand of 150 for elk, but the heavily constructed "X" bullet works just fine.

The 150 can be driven to 2900-3000 FPS (depending on barrel length) giving you a very flat shooting load.

Try 'em! You'll like'em!
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Old June 21, 2002, 12:28 AM   #10
Jay Baker
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I've been using the .280 Rem., for 40 years on many game animals, and I have killed one elk with it. (My regular elk rifle is a .338.) I used my handload of 160 gr. Nosler Partition bullet, 54 grs. IMR 4350, CCI L.R. primers. Chronographed at 2872 FPS. (Oddly enough, the .280 was my backup rifle, and when the scope failed -- broken reticle --on my .338, I used my old tried-'n-true .280, very successfully.)

I know that isn't for a .284, but I suggest for elk, the 150 gr. Nosler Partiton bullet, or, if the .284 case neck is long enough to hold the bullet tightly, try the 160 gr. Nosler Partition.

Either of those bullets, placed in the right spot on a bull elk, will put meat in your freezer.

Good luck. J.B.
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Old June 21, 2002, 12:54 AM   #11
labgrade
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"Either of those bullets, placed in the right spot on a bull elk, will put meat in your freezer.

Jay makes a great point. A good bullet, in the right place brings home the game - & ethically as well.

No question that we've all got our fave calibers, bullets & loadings, but truth is, not much out there, in any suitable caliber/bullet weight-for-game, that won't cleanly take it if you put it where it needs to go.

No question that some have had "bullet failure," but it's somewhat "funny" that they diagnose that over a dead critter. Howz that again?

As mentioned, we've had excellent "luck" with the '06 Fed Premium 180 GameKing on CO elk (I did a decent write-up in TFL's hunting forum somewhere on our results). Likely, we've had the same results using a similar bullet of Hornady, Speer, Nosler construction.

I turned on to the Barnes XBTs soley as a search for a Contender wildcat handgun round that wouldn't deliver the fps I was used to in rifles & wanted every edge I could get regards penetration/expansion at the "lower" velocities. That carried over to a short-tubed .308 - results have been as expected from the research - a 2400 fps .30 cal bullet of proper construction will do an elk to 300 yards & will do 'em to a T at 25!

"Decent enough" bullet in the proper place will do it every time - all day long.

Although the Barnes cost a bunch (but right in the same ballpark as the Nosler Partition), you'll use a box of 50 to work up a load & sight in & then a few/couple a year to make sure & to make that one shot, I think they're well worth it if even on the edge of a "velocity performance" issue. They're rated to expand (& penetrate) as low as 1600 fps.

Best bet, if there's any doubt, contact the bullet manufacturer & ask serious questions. Even though they're there to sell their bullets, they'll usually give good feedback. After that, it's up to you to use/sift that info wisely.

BTW, never discount the experiences of the single-shot handgun hunters regards bullet performance. Their velocities are on the lower side compared to rifles (makes sense for those "marginal" cailbers), usually take only one shot & have a commendable rate of ethical retreival of game - some stuff to be known there .....

</random brain fart>
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Old June 21, 2002, 03:10 PM   #12
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Labgrade makes good points about the Barnes "X" bullets. I haven't used the XBT yet, I still use the plain "X" and it's never let me down.

So far, I've never had to shoot an animal twice with the Barnes bullets. They aren't cheap, but the very best available seldom is.
And after all, what difference does it make if you spend $.75-$1.00 on a bullet if it puts 150+ pounds of meat in the freezer?
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Old June 21, 2002, 11:29 PM   #13
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I have shot a dozen or more elk with a 284, mine is a Winchester model 88 carbine. I load a Sierra 160 grain Gameking with 51.5 grains of 4350 and a winchester primer in winchester cases. It works, and works well. It is a tad slow, about 2600 out of my carbine, but it hits hard. Bullet performance out to a measured 350 yards is outstanding, actually better beyond 150 yards than inside of 150. I have never lost a deer or an elk that I have shot at with this load. BTW, it has never shot under 1.5" at 100 yards, it is around 2" all day every day.

I have never owned a 30-06, but have hunted with lots of guys carrying them. One load that does extremely well is the winchester 180 grain silvertip. I would stay with the 165-200 grain bullets, and keep them of a softpoint construction leaning heavily to 180 grain and heavier bullets. I have seen elk shot broadside with good shotplacement at 150 yards and conventional 150 grain bullets just hump up and run, never recovered. Heavy bullets that stay together are all you need. Never seen an animal hit with the X-bullet so I can't comment.
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Old June 22, 2002, 12:09 PM   #14
Art Eatman
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For deer, with the '06, I've used 52.5 grains of IMR 4064 and a 150-grain bullet since 1950. Accuracy has not varied with different bullets or primers, nor in different rifles. I've always managed to get inside one MOA for three-shot groups.

Shooting at a steel plate at 500 yards, there is a noticeable difference in "damage" between the 150-, 165- and 180-grain bullets. (All loads were with 4064.) For elk, being otherwise ignorant, I would choose the 180-grain.

In my rifle, there is an almost-negligible difference in point of impact among these three loads with a sight-in of 2" high at 100 yards.

FWIW, Art
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Old June 22, 2002, 01:17 PM   #15
redrider
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I am enlightened!!!!!!

Being new to this chat room stuff I am very thankful and surprised by all the comments, thanx one and all. I have a lot more info to draw off of now when it comes time to make the final choice of loads. For me hunting season is a 12 month sport.
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