Home Rule and gun laws...

Lonnie Jaycox · October 19, 2002, 11:35 PM

I live in St. Louis and it looks like a big push for home rule is comming. In MO, local political units are not allowed to make gun laws more restictive than the state laws. Would the adoption of home rule for St. Louis allow them to preempt state gun laws and start the banning they so desperately want? Is anyone here familair enough with MO law to comment on this? What secetion of the MO statutes would I look in to try to find an answer myself?

C.R.Sam · October 20, 2002, 02:15 AM

Not a direct answer to your question but...

The city of Denver CO has home rule and says that the state and federal constitutions do not overrule city ordinances. Being tested in court.

Sam

Dex Sinister · October 20, 2002, 02:17 AM

In general, yes, that's what "home rule" means: They can make laws more restrictive than the state.

Dex

Zander · October 20, 2002, 02:45 AM

Quote:

In general, yes, that's what "home rule" means: They can make laws more restrictive than the state.

Then it's OK if Denver bans "minorities" from entering the city, eh?

Or determines that one can't worship as he chooses?

Or bans free speech from "public" property?

Or ignores search warrants in order to pillage the homes of dissenters?

Your position is worse than ludicrous...

Bob Locke · October 20, 2002, 03:45 AM

Zander,

Am anxiously awaiting the appeal of Rick Stanley where Denver's home rule is being challenged. As was posted on TFL, he got himself arrested for openly carrying a firearm in downtown Denver, in violation of a city ordinance against same. He was tried and convicted, and the judge in the "trial" refused to allow the federal OR state Constitutions to be introduced as evidence for the defense, because Denver, as a "home rule" city, is allowed to pretty much ignore those two documents at will.

Wish I were making it up, but I'm not.

And apparently there are state court decisions backing the position taken by the judge. Haven't done the homework on it, but what little I've read thus far I have no cause to disbelieve.

I'm hoping that it eventually finds it's way to federal court, and that a judge (or judges) at that level recall that little phrase in the federal Constitution which states that it IS the supreme law of the land, all other constitutions and laws to the contrary notwithstanding.

Quote:

Or bans free speech from "public" property?

I know there were several protests we attended in Denver in which there were designated "protest zones" set up by the police. Guess the First Amendment only sort of applies in Denver.

Tamara · October 20, 2002, 06:50 AM

.

Zander · October 20, 2002, 01:42 PM

Howdy, Bob!

Quote:

I know there were several protests we attended in Denver in which there were designated "protest zones" set up by the police. Guess the First Amendment only sort of applies in Denver.

I'm with you; this needs to work its way up the ladder. All the more reason to vote very carefully in a couple of weeks, eh?

Dex Sinister · October 20, 2002, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Zander opined loquaciously:
Then it's OK if Denver bans "minorities" from entering the city, eh?
Or determines that one can't worship as he chooses?
Or bans free speech from "public" property?
Or ignores search warrants in order to pillage the homes of dissenters?
Your position is worse than ludicrous...

“My position” is that “home rule,” when used as a phrase by politicians, possesses grammatical meaning; usually indicating “an effort to pass more restrictive laws than the state, rather than less restrictive laws than the state.”

I made no comment whatsoever on whether this was okay: Merely that the original poster was correct in his assumption about the purpose of the phrase.

Quote:

Bob said:
I know there were several protests we attended in Denver in which there were designated "protest zones" set up by the police. Guess the First Amendment only sort of applies in Denver.

Quote:

Zander “suddenly” acquires knowledge of the subject:
I'm with you; this needs to work its way up the ladder. All the more reason to vote very carefully in a couple of weeks, eh?

Did I intrude on a pet topic that you wished to dominate, or are you just tilting at me for no reason at all?

Dex

fmjcafe · October 20, 2002, 08:45 PM

Lonnie,
I`ve been wondering about the same thing myself. I`m going to vote against it. There was a lot of talk this past summer about urban sprawl and how nice it would be if all these little municipalities disappeared and for St.Louis city to encompass all of St Louis county. If St. Louis is granted home rule and they can pass rules restricting gun ownership beyond what is contained in the state constitution I don`t want to get caught up in it. Besides, what has St. Louis done for me lately? Oh yeah, I remember now, killed right to carry. I hold a grudge. F` em.

October 19, 2002, 11:35 PM	#1
Lonnie Jaycox Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2000 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 182	Home Rule and gun laws... I live in St. Louis and it looks like a big push for home rule is comming. In MO, local political units are not allowed to make gun laws more restictive than the state laws. Would the adoption of home rule for St. Louis allow them to preempt state gun laws and start the banning they so desperately want? Is anyone here familair enough with MO law to comment on this? What secetion of the MO statutes would I look in to try to find an answer myself?

October 20, 2002, 02:15 AM	#2
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Not a direct answer to your question but... The city of Denver CO has home rule and says that the state and federal constitutions do not overrule city ordinances. Being tested in court. Sam

October 20, 2002, 02:17 AM	#3
Dex Sinister Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2002 Location: The People's Republic of California Posts: 172	In general, yes, that's what "home rule" means: They can make laws more restrictive than the state. Dex

October 20, 2002, 06:50 AM	#6
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	.

October 20, 2002, 08:45 PM	#9
fmjcafe Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 1999 Location: St.Louis Posts: 365	Lonnie, I`ve been wondering about the same thing myself. I`m going to vote against it. There was a lot of talk this past summer about urban sprawl and how nice it would be if all these little municipalities disappeared and for St.Louis city to encompass all of St Louis county. If St. Louis is granted home rule and they can pass rules restricting gun ownership beyond what is contained in the state constitution I don`t want to get caught up in it. Besides, what has St. Louis done for me lately? Oh yeah, I remember now, killed right to carry. I hold a grudge. F` em.