Concealed Carry vs. Open Carry

warbirdlover · March 9, 2012, 12:23 AM

Question.

If a state allows open carry (Wisconsin) is it okay to throw the old holster on your hip and walk down the sidewalk on mainstreet? Will you be arrested for ????? And if this okay, why concealed carry? Just something to discuss.

labhound · March 9, 2012, 12:32 AM

In Virginia open carry is legal and concealed carry requires a permit. When I took the concealed carry safety class prior to getting my concealed handgun permit our instructor told us "use common sense when open carrying". He said its perfectly legal to open carry when walking down Granby street in downtown Norfolk but keep in mind someone will probably see you, call the police stating someone has a gun downtown on Granby Street and the dispatcher won't only send one cop but probably every cop in the downtown area. The point being, while open carry is legal, use discretion when doing so.

TunnelRat · March 9, 2012, 12:46 AM

Quote:

And if this okay, why concealed carry?

Because to me you're walking around with a giant sign above your head that says "Target". Advertising to the bad guy that I am walking around with a > $500 piece of weaponry on my hip always seemed like a bad idea. That and it will draw the attention of police and panicky citizens. Some will say tough for them and they just need to get used to it. If it's legal to do so that is a fair point. However, in my mind everyone who carries is an ambassador for the shooting sports. When you open carry you tend to scare a lot of people, and that means that possibly their only interaction with guns is a negative one. I prefer that not to be the case so I carry concealed.

arentol · March 9, 2012, 12:52 AM

Quote:

If a state allows open carry (Wisconsin) is it okay to throw the old holster on your hip and walk down the sidewalk on mainstreet?

Probably, but I don't know much about the Wisconsin laws. I know of a person that has a photo of him taken a few weeks ago with one of this years republican presidential candidates while the person was OC'ing. Same guy has photos with other major political figures in our state as well.

Quote:

Will you be arrested for ?????

Probably not, but each state varies in how/why OC is legal, and in some cities the cops are idiots and will arrest you anyway.

Quote:

And if this okay, why concealed carry?

Because your employer doesn't allow OC.
Because you just don't like the (little) attention it draws.
Because you believe (incorrectly) that OC increases the likelihood you will be attacked first/for your gun.
Because you frequently visit locations that will trespass you if they know you have a firearm, but won't if they don't.
etc.... The reasons are endless and vary heavily with each individual.

As to labhound's point about someone calling the police.... In areas where OC is legal the dispatcher should be asking about the behavior of the individual with the gun. If the person reporting it says the gun is holstered and they aren't touching it, then the dispatcher should inform them that as long as the person doesn't threaten anyone it is perfectly legal for them to have the gun in a holster... This is actually one (small) reason people should OC if they are comfortable doing so, to educate the public so incidents like labhound described don't happen.

As to Tunnelrats statement... After a fairly exhaustive search of news articles from the last 30 years by a large number of people only 2 incidents of a private citizen "OC'ers" being targeted and having their firearm stolen by thugs were found. In both cases the attackers already knew the person, In one case the person was a prior victim of those attackers, and in both cases the person was known to the attackers to be unlikely to use the guns effectively in their own defense. Sorry, but that just is not a valid concern. Literally 10's of thousands of people OC every day in the US and they don't get targeted. If they don't know you they assume you are a police officer or an experienced high-end security guard or something. They won't even consider messing with you unless you look super weak, and then not even then 99.99999% of the time.

Also most thugs have no clue whether a particular gun is all that valuable or not.

zxcvbob · March 9, 2012, 01:00 AM

Quote:

If a state allows open carry (Wisconsin) is it okay to throw the old holster on your hip and walk down the sidewalk on mainstreet?

Yes, except in Madison or Milwaukee. It's legal there too, but the cops don't care and will arrest you anyway just to harass you. It's happened before.

TunnelRat · March 9, 2012, 01:09 AM

Quote:

As to Tunnelrats statement... After a fairly exhaustive search of news articles from the last 30 years by a large number of people only 2 incidents of a private citizen "OC'ers" being targeted and having their firearm stolen by thugs were found. In both cases the attackers already knew the person, In one case the person was a prior victim of those attackers, and in both cases the person was known to the attackers to be unlikely to use the guns effectively in their own defense. Sorry, but that just is not a valid concern. Literally 10's of thousands of people OC every day in the US and they don't get targeted. If they don't know you they assume you are a police officer or an experienced high-end security guard or something. They won't even consider messing with you unless you look super weak, and then not even then 99.99999% of the time.

Lol, I like how you picked one point out of a paragraph and it magically became my "statement". What I personally believe is what I personally believe, I honestly don't care if you can find a newspaper article to support it.

Cheapshooter · March 9, 2012, 01:28 AM

Quote:

why concealed carry? Just something to discuss.

Because open carry in a metropolitan, highly populated area SCREAMS "Mall Ninja"! I'm not advertising anything about what I am carrying.

Water-Man · March 9, 2012, 01:55 AM

We can open carry in my state. I don't do so in the larger cities but I do on occasion in the more rural areas.

Most of the cops are accepting but there are those exceptions that can make life difficult.

W-M

excelerater · March 9, 2012, 06:48 AM

I never will OC,I never want to show my cards
and no matter how much I like guns there are too many folks
that wont ever and seeing my sidearm makes folks un easy...

iblong · March 9, 2012, 08:31 AM

It is allowed here but I prefer to go un noticed,like it or not it does make a lot of people nervous and I dont need the attention.
If I have to pull or use it Id rather it was a supprise,preferably when the recipient is distracted.

Uncle Billy · March 9, 2012, 09:04 AM

IMHO legal open carrying for one's self-defense where concealed carry is legal makes no sense, unless the only guns one has are too big to conceal.

In some parts of the US people seeing others carrying guns in everyday places like the mall begets a negative response toward guns and thus turns some people against gun rights who were previously indifferent to them .

shadowen · March 9, 2012, 11:23 AM

Personally, I think the whole Open Carry vs Concealed Carry thing is a moot argument where both are legal; do the one that makes sense to you based on the situation and what you're comfortable with.

For example, in the summer I tend to Open Carry more, especially during the day. Lighter clothes and full size pistols make this the most comfortable carry route. Even in the winter I tend to Open Carry during the day, though it ends up concealed because I have a winter jacket or some form of heavier over shirt on most of the time because its cold.

Generally when/if I go out at night (no matter the season) I'm concealed carrying. This is because I may end up somewhere (example: restaurant/bar, etc...) where concealed is just more appropriate (for me anyway this is crowded areas where people may be getting a bit silly).

Going back to my first point for a moment: Arguing Open Carry vs Concealed Carry is just dividing ourselves when we should stay united for the common cause of RKBA. If you don't like one or the other, than you don't personally have to do it and in my opinion, someone else opting for one over the other in no way harms you or the RKBA cause itself, as long as both modes of carry are done with responsibility (someone irresponsibly conceal carrying can do just as much damage as someone irresponsibly open carrying).

warrior poet · March 9, 2012, 11:44 AM

I open carry when archery hunting. The reason is simple and should be self explanatory. Otherwise, I am carrying concealled... or... without a firearm.

In case you are wondering... rockclimbing, rescue climbing and kayaking are ALWAYS without a firearm.

pgdion · March 9, 2012, 12:51 PM

In MN it is legally ok but is highly advised against (in MN it's just a carry permit, not a concealed carry permit). You will most certainly get harassed for it and could be charged with causing a public disturbance. Just do the concealed carry is my recommendation.
What I do like about having the open carry is if the concealed carry shows a little, it's still legal.

Pianoguy · March 9, 2012, 01:11 PM

Open carry is technically okay in Wisconsin as long as its not in a posted area or other area where state law prohibits it (school grounds, court houses, for example). The police have at times been involved if they get a complaint or feel that the open carry is causing a disturbance. The notorious Culvers case in Madison ended up with fines for disturbing the peace which from my understanding were later waived.

From a practical standpoint, open carry, whether or nor you have a right to it, seems to be asking for possible trouble depending on where you do it. Also, BGs want guns so you better be able to protect that thing since you may very well become a target. The people I know in LE, etc would rather you did not open carry. There was a case in Milwaukee where a guy was mugged for his gun. He had been open carrying and they targeted him and took it. He was older and physically could not protect the weapon.

In rural Wisconsin or the northern part of the state, very differnet from Milwaukee and Madison - and I've lived in both and have friends in both, you probably will not be hassled. But even though a conservative governor and legislature managed to get CC passed in WI, the majority of people in Wisconsin are still against CC from the polls I have seen. So be ready for being hassled in WI if you carry and advertise it. I only CC for my own good and realizing that others may be offended by open carry. They DO have a right to not want people with guns around them regardless of what rights you may believe you have. I don't go out of my way to antagonize people and that will do it.

warbirdlover · March 9, 2012, 02:38 PM

Pretty much the answers I expected and believed to be true.

Open carry is legal in most places but you'll attract lot's of attention.

You'll possibly get some harrassment by police in large cities.

If you look like Mr. Rodgers (even though he was a war hero before his kid's tv show) and have a gun on your hip you'll probably not scare too many bad guys.

Concealed carry makes more sense when out in public with a handgun.

Do I have it right?

warbirdlover · March 9, 2012, 02:43 PM

Check out these pictures and this site "Wisconsin Carry, Inc" ....

http://www.wisconsincarry.org/defaul...rm&height=1337

On the top menu in this site go to the organization/photo gallery..... (it won't let me link to it)....

Notice they're open carrying in downtown Madison, Wis.

Armybrat · March 9, 2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Because open carry in a metropolitan, highly populated area SCREAMS "Mall Ninja"! I'm not advertising anything about what I am carrying

I agree.

OC in rural areas & small towns is no big deal, but in large urban areas I think your quote is valid.

Pianoguy · March 9, 2012, 03:36 PM

regarding the open carry in Madison and those photos, I'm very familiar with that area around the capital and have to wonder when they were there because that's as dead as I've ever seen it - very early on a Sunday morning? They should try it on a Saturday when the farmer's market is in town or before and after a Badger's football game. There have been media people who have carried down State Street when it was busy just to see what would happen and nothing did. Maybe they just blend in with the other colorful people that generally hang out down there. By now the Madison crowd realizes a group like that is trying to see if someone will be offended and they just ignore them - but probably move along a bit faster.

manta49 · March 9, 2012, 03:48 PM

Open carry. Let a possible assailant know that you have a gun making sure that if he is planing to assault you he will make sure that you don't get a chance to use your gun. Now that makes sense.

**Spats McGee** · March 9, 2012, 03:59 PM

TunnelRat has already articulated my thinking on this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

. . . . Advertising to the bad guy that I am walking around with a > $500 piece of weaponry on my hip always seemed like a bad idea. That and it will draw the attention of police and panicky citizens. . . .

TacticalDefense1911 · March 9, 2012, 04:21 PM

Open carry is asinine in my opinion. The only thing that it does is draw attention to the fact that you are carrying a weapon and it puts a big sign on your chest that says "shoot me first". The last thing I want is for people, especially a potential threat, to know that I have a weapon.

aarondhgraham · March 9, 2012, 04:38 PM

That the vast majority of people who carry openly,,,
Are trying to make a statement of some kind.

I don't want to make a statement of any kind,,,
I just want to carry more comfortably,,,
Concealed is often uncomfortable.

I live in Oklahoma,,,
House Bill 2522 is being considered right now,,,
If passed it will allow people who have a CWL to carry openly.

If this passes I will still carry concealed,,,
But I will do it much more casually than I do now.

In short what this will do for me,,
Is allow me to conceal a bit more loosely.

Not having to worry about printing or accidental exposure,,,
Would be a great improvement over the current state of affairs.

Appendix carry with an unbuttoned shirt,,,
instead of appendix carry with a tightly buttoned shirt.

Aarond

.

shadowen · March 9, 2012, 05:36 PM

Lets just remember a lot (if not all) of the "conclusions" drawn in this thread are opinions and nothing more; I don't really see many (if any) facts here. I won't call any of them out specifically, but to anyone reading this that is undecided about the two modes of carry you would do well to take it all with a grain of salt.

For every opinion here there is a counter-point (on both sides) and the best thing that can be had from all of this is carry how you feel comfortable carrying; and that alone will depend on many variables, from location to laws to you, the individual and what you feel comfortable with.

Each persons experience will not match and I think the more important point is to remember that however you carry make sure you do it responsibly. As I stated before an irresponsible Concealed Carrier is just as bad as an irresponsible Open Carrier.

mrvco · March 9, 2012, 07:01 PM

The City of Denver banned Open Carry, but Colorado is a Shall-Issue state and it sounds like Denver proper was never friendly to Open Carry anyway (legal or not). Regardless, once you cross the city limits, there is no shortage of gun-friendly places to live.

Where I live, I wouldn't hesitate to open carry if I had a reason to carry something that I couldn't reasonably conceal (e.g. aggressive bears, rabid elk, outlaw snowboarders

, etc.)... but if that were the situation, I'm pretty sure that I'd just be one among many.

March 9, 2012, 12:23 AM	#1
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	Concealed Carry vs. Open Carry Question. If a state allows open carry (Wisconsin) is it okay to throw the old holster on your hip and walk down the sidewalk on mainstreet? Will you be arrested for ????? And if this okay, why concealed carry? Just something to discuss.

March 9, 2012, 06:48 AM	#9
excelerater Junior member Join Date: June 27, 2011 Location: Memphis TN Posts: 694	I never will OC,I never want to show my cards and no matter how much I like guns there are too many folks that wont ever and seeing my sidearm makes folks un easy... Last edited by excelerater; March 9, 2012 at 07:53 AM.

March 9, 2012, 12:51 PM	#14
pgdion Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2010 Location: MPLS, MN Posts: 1,214	In MN it is legally ok but is highly advised against (in MN it's just a carry permit, not a concealed carry permit). You will most certainly get harassed for it and could be charged with causing a public disturbance. Just do the concealed carry is my recommendation. What I do like about having the open carry is if the concealed carry shows a little, it's still legal. __________________ 597 VTR, because there's so many cans and so little time!

March 9, 2012, 04:38 PM	#23
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	I can't help but think,,, That the vast majority of people who carry openly,,, Are trying to make a statement of some kind. I don't want to make a statement of any kind,,, I just want to carry more comfortably,,, Concealed is often uncomfortable. I live in Oklahoma,,, House Bill 2522 is being considered right now,,, If passed it will allow people who have a CWL to carry openly. If this passes I will still carry concealed,,, But I will do it much more casually than I do now. In short what this will do for me,, Is allow me to conceal a bit more loosely. Not having to worry about printing or accidental exposure,,, Would be a great improvement over the current state of affairs. Appendix carry with an unbuttoned shirt,,, instead of appendix carry with a tightly buttoned shirt. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

March 9, 2012, 07:01 PM	#25
mrvco Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2011 Posts: 214	The City of Denver banned Open Carry, but Colorado is a Shall-Issue state and it sounds like Denver proper was never friendly to Open Carry anyway (legal or not). Regardless, once you cross the city limits, there is no shortage of gun-friendly places to live. Where I live, I wouldn't hesitate to open carry if I had a reason to carry something that I couldn't reasonably conceal (e.g. aggressive bears, rabid elk, outlaw snowboarders, etc.)... but if that were the situation, I'm pretty sure that I'd just be one among many.

March 9, 2012, 12:32 AM	#2
labhound Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2010 Posts: 363	In Virginia open carry is legal and concealed carry requires a permit. When I took the concealed carry safety class prior to getting my concealed handgun permit our instructor told us "use common sense when open carrying". He said its perfectly legal to open carry when walking down Granby street in downtown Norfolk but keep in mind someone will probably see you, call the police stating someone has a gun downtown on Granby Street and the dispatcher won't only send one cop but probably every cop in the downtown area. The point being, while open carry is legal, use discretion when doing so.

March 9, 2012, 01:55 AM	#8
Water-Man Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 2,126	We can open carry in my state. I don't do so in the larger cities but I do on occasion in the more rural areas. Most of the cops are accepting but there are those exceptions that can make life difficult. W-M

March 9, 2012, 08:31 AM	#10
iblong Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2008 Location: MN Posts: 559	It is allowed here but I prefer to go un noticed,like it or not it does make a lot of people nervous and I dont need the attention. If I have to pull or use it Id rather it was a supprise,preferably when the recipient is distracted.

March 9, 2012, 09:04 AM	#11
Uncle Billy Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2009 Location: Small city in New York Posts: 482	IMHO legal open carrying for one's self-defense where concealed carry is legal makes no sense, unless the only guns one has are too big to conceal. In some parts of the US people seeing others carrying guns in everyday places like the mall begets a negative response toward guns and thus turns some people against gun rights who were previously indifferent to them .

March 9, 2012, 11:23 AM	#12
shadowen Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 15	Personally, I think the whole Open Carry vs Concealed Carry thing is a moot argument where both are legal; do the one that makes sense to you based on the situation and what you're comfortable with. For example, in the summer I tend to Open Carry more, especially during the day. Lighter clothes and full size pistols make this the most comfortable carry route. Even in the winter I tend to Open Carry during the day, though it ends up concealed because I have a winter jacket or some form of heavier over shirt on most of the time because its cold. Generally when/if I go out at night (no matter the season) I'm concealed carrying. This is because I may end up somewhere (example: restaurant/bar, etc...) where concealed is just more appropriate (for me anyway this is crowded areas where people may be getting a bit silly). Going back to my first point for a moment: Arguing Open Carry vs Concealed Carry is just dividing ourselves when we should stay united for the common cause of RKBA. If you don't like one or the other, than you don't personally have to do it and in my opinion, someone else opting for one over the other in no way harms you or the RKBA cause itself, as long as both modes of carry are done with responsibility (someone irresponsibly conceal carrying can do just as much damage as someone irresponsibly open carrying).

March 9, 2012, 11:44 AM	#13
warrior poet Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: Whereever Uncle Sam wants to put me Posts: 415	I open carry when archery hunting. The reason is simple and should be self explanatory. Otherwise, I am carrying concealled... or... without a firearm. In case you are wondering... rockclimbing, rescue climbing and kayaking are ALWAYS without a firearm.

March 9, 2012, 01:11 PM	#15
Pianoguy Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 235	Open carry is technically okay in Wisconsin as long as its not in a posted area or other area where state law prohibits it (school grounds, court houses, for example). The police have at times been involved if they get a complaint or feel that the open carry is causing a disturbance. The notorious Culvers case in Madison ended up with fines for disturbing the peace which from my understanding were later waived. From a practical standpoint, open carry, whether or nor you have a right to it, seems to be asking for possible trouble depending on where you do it. Also, BGs want guns so you better be able to protect that thing since you may very well become a target. The people I know in LE, etc would rather you did not open carry. There was a case in Milwaukee where a guy was mugged for his gun. He had been open carrying and they targeted him and took it. He was older and physically could not protect the weapon. In rural Wisconsin or the northern part of the state, very differnet from Milwaukee and Madison - and I've lived in both and have friends in both, you probably will not be hassled. But even though a conservative governor and legislature managed to get CC passed in WI, the majority of people in Wisconsin are still against CC from the polls I have seen. So be ready for being hassled in WI if you carry and advertise it. I only CC for my own good and realizing that others may be offended by open carry. They DO have a right to not want people with guns around them regardless of what rights you may believe you have. I don't go out of my way to antagonize people and that will do it.

March 9, 2012, 02:38 PM	#16
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	Pretty much the answers I expected and believed to be true. Open carry is legal in most places but you'll attract lot's of attention. You'll possibly get some harrassment by police in large cities. If you look like Mr. Rodgers (even though he was a war hero before his kid's tv show) and have a gun on your hip you'll probably not scare too many bad guys. Concealed carry makes more sense when out in public with a handgun. Do I have it right?

March 9, 2012, 02:43 PM	#17
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	Check out these pictures and this site "Wisconsin Carry, Inc" .... http://www.wisconsincarry.org/defaul...rm&height=1337 On the top menu in this site go to the organization/photo gallery..... (it won't let me link to it).... Notice they're open carrying in downtown Madison, Wis.

March 9, 2012, 03:36 PM	#19
Pianoguy Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 235	regarding the open carry in Madison and those photos, I'm very familiar with that area around the capital and have to wonder when they were there because that's as dead as I've ever seen it - very early on a Sunday morning? They should try it on a Saturday when the farmer's market is in town or before and after a Badger's football game. There have been media people who have carried down State Street when it was busy just to see what would happen and nothing did. Maybe they just blend in with the other colorful people that generally hang out down there. By now the Madison crowd realizes a group like that is trying to see if someone will be offended and they just ignore them - but probably move along a bit faster.

March 9, 2012, 03:48 PM	#20
manta49 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2011 Location: N Ireland. UK. Posts: 1,809	Open carry. Let a possible assailant know that you have a gun making sure that if he is planing to assault you he will make sure that you don't get a chance to use your gun. Now that makes sense.

March 9, 2012, 04:21 PM	#22
TacticalDefense1911 Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,277	Open carry is asinine in my opinion. The only thing that it does is draw attention to the fact that you are carrying a weapon and it puts a big sign on your chest that says "shoot me first". The last thing I want is for people, especially a potential threat, to know that I have a weapon.

March 9, 2012, 05:36 PM	#24
shadowen Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 15	Lets just remember a lot (if not all) of the "conclusions" drawn in this thread are opinions and nothing more; I don't really see many (if any) facts here. I won't call any of them out specifically, but to anyone reading this that is undecided about the two modes of carry you would do well to take it all with a grain of salt. For every opinion here there is a counter-point (on both sides) and the best thing that can be had from all of this is carry how you feel comfortable carrying; and that alone will depend on many variables, from location to laws to you, the individual and what you feel comfortable with. Each persons experience will not match and I think the more important point is to remember that however you carry make sure you do it responsibly. As I stated before an irresponsible Concealed Carrier is just as bad as an irresponsible Open Carrier.