French SEALs Carry the 6" S&W 686 !!!

Kernel · December 5, 1999, 12:05 AM

Was watch Speed Vision on cable the other afternoon. They were showing a program about the history of the French airplane manufacturer Dassault. Toward the end of the program they were talking about a French carrier borne recon plane that was hit with a SAM over Bosnia. The plane made it back aboard ship (with half of it's tail blowed away), but they showed some French SEALs (or French equivalent) getting ready in case it did crashed over enemy territory.

I was online at the same time and kinda watchin' the show with one eye. They were showing the SEALs getting there gear together, going up on deck, checking there weapons, making sure they had plenty of snails-in-garlic&wine-sauce MREs, refraining from using deodorant, and not pronouncing half the letters in the words they use…. you know, whatever it is French SEALs do to get ready for a mission. BTW the French carry some kinda funky bullpup assault rifle, of the type so en vogue (a little French lingo there) in Europe these days.

So these French SEALs are milling around the deck of this French carrier and I notice most of them are wearing these big bandoleer holsters. Hmm, wonder what they got in there, seems kinda large for a "crunch-n-clicker". Then one guy reaches in, pulls out a 6" Smith & Wesson 686, checks his load, and puts it back in the holster! I just saw it for a few seconds, but I'm sure that's what it was. Now, I'm not a big fan of the French, check my post under UGLIEST GUN, but this is proof they have at least one redeeming quality.

Can anyone else confirm, or deny (the Smith)? -- Kernel

**4V50 Gary** · December 5, 1999, 12:10 AM

The French are still heavily into revolvers. I observed a lot of S&W and Ruger revolvers being carried by the police when I was in Paris (1992). The French Gendarmerie Nationale also have a special edition of the Mini14. If I get my hands on the scanner and learn how to download a photograph, I post pictures of theirs. It is different from our own.

------------------
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

Gwinnydapooh · December 5, 1999, 01:13 AM

Dick Marcinko used stainless 4" Smith and Wesson revolvers when he started Seal Team Six, according to his book. Of course, I guess that was awhile back. He trusted them more to be reliable. He also claims to be the one who insisted on MP5's--says his superiors wanted to get "Mac10's for half the price."

------------------
Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron

Glenn E. Meyer · December 5, 1999, 01:21 AM

Didn't see it but it might be a Manhurin.
They were made in 357 and used by the
French Government.

Just a thought.

Tecolote · December 5, 1999, 01:31 AM

Years ago I read in a magazine titled "Gung Ho" that the French anti-terrorist unit used S&W 357 magnum revolvers among other pistols.

------------------
So many pistols, so little money.

B Shipley · December 5, 1999, 01:41 AM

French counter-terrorism teams use the Manhurin MR 73, a very high quality target grade revolver licensed off the S&W action. This and the Korth, along with older Pythons, rank as the world's finest DA revolvers.

Destructo6 · December 5, 1999, 03:09 AM

French Bullpup is "FAMAS":

Do they call French SEALs "Frogs"?

Espresso · December 5, 1999, 02:10 PM

Hey Gwinneydapoo,

I read the book also. But I believe he plankowners of Team 6 were using Rugers. Either Security Sixs or Speed Sixs when in a pure maritine environment. I can't find my book to confirm this. Can someone check this out?

Gwinnydapooh · December 5, 1999, 02:22 PM

That could be right. Sorry, I can't check--it was my sister's copy of the book. But it was about 2 years ago so it's definitely possible I just missed the boat. Wouldn't that be a kick--the most elite CT team in the world using Rugers?

I kinda like that if true.

------------------
Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron

Mike Spight · December 5, 1999, 02:26 PM

Gwinny/Espresso:

Six was using S&W Mod 66s w/4" bbls. If you get to look back at the book, there's a good shot of one of their men with a Mod 66 in his right hand during a maritime training exercise.

Mike

[This message has been edited by Mike Spight (edited December 05, 1999).]

Geschutzfeuer · December 5, 1999, 06:23 PM

I was at a function (dinner) in Washington DC, the evenings entertainment included displays from the different special operations forces (US), low and behold the SEALS had their weapons laid out and there it was a S&W 686

James K · December 5, 1999, 07:39 PM

Maybe, unlike some folks, they don't care about bells and whistles and just want something that WORKS!

Jim

Walt Sherrill · December 5, 1999, 07:49 PM

Hey 4V50:

Those weren't RUGERS the French were carrying, they were Manuhurins.

These were greatly improved guns of Ruger design, manufactured under license from Ruger.

The French put a lot of effort into improving the lockworks, smoothing the triggers, etc. The Ruger-based guns also had a side plate (unlike the Ruger). One in 95% condition, according to the Blue Book, sells for almost $2,000. Considered a pretty damned good gun.
But not as good as the other Manuhurin revolver, one of their own design, which looks more like a S&W. A much more expensive gun, and considered some of the finest revolvers in the world. These are still used by some of their special ops teams. (I wonder if these might've been confused for a S&W revolver?)

One of the gun mags, this past year, had a series of articles about them. I've been looking for them, ever since.

Ossi · December 6, 1999, 09:44 AM

I also think the French special operations teams use Manurhin revolvers. I have seen them mentioned in many gun publications as guns of choise for French counterterrorist units, and the French generally prefer to produce their own armament domestically even if it is lisenced by a foreign company (as do the USA also). For some reason some French units trust in revolvers while most of Europe has gone to semiautos only.

The French Manurhins are considered high quality revolvers in Europe. They have been used also in serious gunsports, for example in Silhouette competitions. Manurhins cost more than American revolvers (except Colt Python that costs about as much) here in Finland, but I don't know if that is the case also in France. Any Frenchmen in this forum?

Ossi

Joseph · December 6, 1999, 10:02 AM

Any info on Manurhin's. I've searched the web, but nothing. Are they imported into the US. Anybody got one? Any experiences?

[This message has been edited by Joseph (edited December 06, 1999).]

BigG · December 6, 1999, 11:18 AM

Somebody help me... When was the last time the French won a war? I can't remember!

The S&W is the first decent choice I've heard that they made in about two centuries. Even a blind pig finds an acorn sometimes, it seems!

BTW, I'm a Frenchie by descent. However, FT pigs. They have never supported us since LaFayette! He would turn over in his grave if he knew them now.

------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785

Joseph · December 6, 1999, 11:27 AM

I've done some more research on Manurhin revolvers. First off, I was getting the spelling wrong. There isn't a whole lot of data out there, except that the company made the Walther pistols after the war.

I called Manurhin in France, and they no longer manufacturer the weapons, having turned it over to Chapues, a small manufactuer headed by Vincent Chapues. I spoke with him and they have no website as yet but hope to add one. Also, no US dealers, but he will sell directly to an FFL.

His phone number is 011-33-477-500696
Fax is 011-33-477-501070

Send him a fax with your address and he will mail out a brochure. Very nice man with good english.

There is also a website of a company in Australia which sells the Manurhin, and has some nice photos:
http://www.sportingagencies.com.au/index1.htm

Roon

Kernel · December 6, 1999, 11:59 AM

What I saw on TV could very well have been a French made revolver, especially if it was a licensed copy of a Smith, in the brief time it was shown there'd be no way to tell. I am aware that a number of high quality revolvers are made in Europe, I've just never seen one in stainless steel. Stainless is a different animal altogether. A company would have to have special tooling dedicated to just stainless production - a very expensive outlay for a small military contract - the two materials machine very differently. Do any of the companies mentioned above make & market stainless revolvers? -- Kernel

Joseph · December 6, 1999, 12:15 PM

The Manurhin comes in stainless, at least that's what shown on the sporting agency website, listed above.

BrokenArrow · December 6, 1999, 01:16 PM

They also use the Glock 17L and Berettas. Like our SEALS, they can get, and use, just about anything, and they do.

I've seen US SEALs w USP 40s for example.

------------------
>>>>---->

Dr.Rob · December 6, 1999, 01:41 PM

I recall marcinko using issuing the 686 AND ruger mini 14 at 6 because they were STAINLESS and therefore better suited to marine environments. The french were perhaps copying this notion??

On two trips to paris in 97 I saw the military police at the airports carried (unlaoded) Fn_MAS rifles like the one pictured, while street cops carried MAB automatics on steel reincfoced shock cords on their belts. One lady cop i saw on guard duty outside place d'Italie was carrying a beretta machine pistol (not sure of the designation but it has two vertical grips and the stick magazine slants back into the action in front of the triggerguard) at port arms and was wearing a BP vest.. far more menacing than the gendarme who reminded my that there was no smoking on the metro.

Of course it could have been a french "refinement" of an italian gun.. you know the french are VERY keen on developing and using their own technology. So it may indeed have been a manhurin 686 french seals carried while waging war on Greenpeace.

Dr.Rob

Glenn E. Meyer · December 6, 1999, 04:14 PM

Read the page, the newest Manhurin with
its onehanded release and ejection system
sound really interesting.

How does it work?

Je ne sais pas.

Glenn

**4V50 Gary** · December 6, 1999, 04:33 PM

Nope Walt. I respectfully disagree. I was riding in a police car in Paris and asked about their guns. I saw a Ruger (pronounced Rooo-ge) and S&Ws. No doubt that Manurhins are out there too (perhaps the Gendarme Nationale). I'm not sure about how each police prefecture purchases firearms.

The French were curious about what I carried and when I replied, "Sig-Sauer" I got blank stares. I then said, "Deustches Waffen" thinking they could at least pick up on German. More blank stares. "Tedeschi" I said in Italian. Finally, from some dark crevice of my brain, I said, "Allemand" to which they lit up.

------------------
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

MusclesMcGee · December 6, 1999, 04:33 PM

Dr. Rob, I was in Paris three years ago and remeber something similar. At the Gar du Nord they had cops (?) patrolling the train station armed with what looked to be MP5s hung on a chain sling. They had those things pointed in every which direction with absolutely no discretion, and their finger on the trigger at all times.

Dr.Rob · December 6, 1999, 05:12 PM

Oui,

France was having a LOT of problems with terrorist bombings at that time and the gendarmes who prowl the metro stations did so armed to the teeth. In fact on my first trip in April, 97 you could NOT FIND a public trash can anywhere in Paris, seems they kept blowing up. Seriously and and all public trash cans were removed or welded shut and no businesses put out the garbage until RIGHT before the garbage trucks arrived. this was NOT the case in Dec. of 97, as I noticed the garbage cans were beginning to re-appear.

Unfortunately for me the Louvre was on strike on both trips. ;(

Dr.Rob

December 5, 1999, 12:05 AM	#1
Kernel Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 1999 Location: Madison, WI.... "78 Square Miles Surrounded by Reality" Posts: 923	Was watch Speed Vision on cable the other afternoon. They were showing a program about the history of the French airplane manufacturer Dassault. Toward the end of the program they were talking about a French carrier borne recon plane that was hit with a SAM over Bosnia. The plane made it back aboard ship (with half of it's tail blowed away), but they showed some French SEALs (or French equivalent) getting ready in case it did crashed over enemy territory. I was online at the same time and kinda watchin' the show with one eye. They were showing the SEALs getting there gear together, going up on deck, checking there weapons, making sure they had plenty of snails-in-garlic&wine-sauce MREs, refraining from using deodorant, and not pronouncing half the letters in the words they use…. you know, whatever it is French SEALs do to get ready for a mission. BTW the French carry some kinda funky bullpup assault rifle, of the type so en vogue (a little French lingo there) in Europe these days. So these French SEALs are milling around the deck of this French carrier and I notice most of them are wearing these big bandoleer holsters. Hmm, wonder what they got in there, seems kinda large for a "crunch-n-clicker". Then one guy reaches in, pulls out a 6" Smith & Wesson 686, checks his load, and puts it back in the holster! I just saw it for a few seconds, but I'm sure that's what it was. Now, I'm not a big fan of the French, check my post under UGLIEST GUN, but this is proof they have at least one redeeming quality. Can anyone else confirm, or deny (the Smith)? -- Kernel

December 5, 1999, 12:10 AM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,301	The French are still heavily into revolvers. I observed a lot of S&W and Ruger revolvers being carried by the police when I was in Paris (1992). The French Gendarmerie Nationale also have a special edition of the Mini14. If I get my hands on the scanner and learn how to download a photograph, I post pictures of theirs. It is different from our own. ------------------ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

December 5, 1999, 01:13 AM	#3
Gwinnydapooh Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 978	Dick Marcinko used stainless 4" Smith and Wesson revolvers when he started Seal Team Six, according to his book. Of course, I guess that was awhile back. He trusted them more to be reliable. He also claims to be the one who insisted on MP5's--says his superiors wanted to get "Mac10's for half the price." ------------------ Don "Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children" --Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron

December 5, 1999, 01:21 AM	#4
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,061	Didn't see it but it might be a Manhurin. They were made in 357 and used by the French Government. Just a thought.

December 5, 1999, 01:31 AM	#5
Tecolote Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 1999 Posts: 1,999	Years ago I read in a magazine titled "Gung Ho" that the French anti-terrorist unit used S&W 357 magnum revolvers among other pistols. ------------------ So many pistols, so little money.

December 5, 1999, 01:41 AM	#6
B Shipley Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 1998 Posts: 719	French counter-terrorism teams use the Manhurin MR 73, a very high quality target grade revolver licensed off the S&W action. This and the Korth, along with older Pythons, rank as the world's finest DA revolvers.

December 5, 1999, 03:09 AM	#7
Destructo6 Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 1999 Location: Nogales, AZ USA Posts: 4,016	French Bullpup is "FAMAS": Do they call French SEALs "Frogs"?

December 5, 1999, 02:10 PM	#8
Espresso Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 1999 Posts: 119	Hey Gwinneydapoo, I read the book also. But I believe he plankowners of Team 6 were using Rugers. Either Security Sixs or Speed Sixs when in a pure maritine environment. I can't find my book to confirm this. Can someone check this out?

December 5, 1999, 02:22 PM	#9
Gwinnydapooh Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 978	That could be right. Sorry, I can't check--it was my sister's copy of the book. But it was about 2 years ago so it's definitely possible I just missed the boat. Wouldn't that be a kick--the most elite CT team in the world using Rugers? I kinda like that if true. ------------------ Don "Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children" --Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron

December 5, 1999, 02:26 PM	#10
Mike Spight Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Leavenworth, KS USA Posts: 606	Gwinny/Espresso: Six was using S&W Mod 66s w/4" bbls. If you get to look back at the book, there's a good shot of one of their men with a Mod 66 in his right hand during a maritime training exercise. Mike [This message has been edited by Mike Spight (edited December 05, 1999).]

December 5, 1999, 06:23 PM	#11
Geschutzfeuer Junior Member Join Date: December 5, 1999 Location: NC Posts: 5	I was at a function (dinner) in Washington DC, the evenings entertainment included displays from the different special operations forces (US), low and behold the SEALS had their weapons laid out and there it was a S&W 686

December 5, 1999, 07:39 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Maybe, unlike some folks, they don't care about bells and whistles and just want something that WORKS! Jim

December 5, 1999, 07:49 PM	#13
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	Hey 4V50: Those weren't RUGERS the French were carrying, they were Manuhurins. These were greatly improved guns of Ruger design, manufactured under license from Ruger. The French put a lot of effort into improving the lockworks, smoothing the triggers, etc. The Ruger-based guns also had a side plate (unlike the Ruger). One in 95% condition, according to the Blue Book, sells for almost $2,000. Considered a pretty damned good gun. But not as good as the other Manuhurin revolver, one of their own design, which looks more like a S&W. A much more expensive gun, and considered some of the finest revolvers in the world. These are still used by some of their special ops teams. (I wonder if these might've been confused for a S&W revolver?) One of the gun mags, this past year, had a series of articles about them. I've been looking for them, ever since.

December 6, 1999, 09:44 AM	#14
Ossi Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 1999 Location: Finland Posts: 135	I also think the French special operations teams use Manurhin revolvers. I have seen them mentioned in many gun publications as guns of choise for French counterterrorist units, and the French generally prefer to produce their own armament domestically even if it is lisenced by a foreign company (as do the USA also). For some reason some French units trust in revolvers while most of Europe has gone to semiautos only. The French Manurhins are considered high quality revolvers in Europe. They have been used also in serious gunsports, for example in Silhouette competitions. Manurhins cost more than American revolvers (except Colt Python that costs about as much) here in Finland, but I don't know if that is the case also in France. Any Frenchmen in this forum? Ossi

December 6, 1999, 10:02 AM	#15
Joseph Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Location: Cornelius, NC Posts: 695	Any info on Manurhin's. I've searched the web, but nothing. Are they imported into the US. Anybody got one? Any experiences? [This message has been edited by Joseph (edited December 06, 1999).]

December 6, 1999, 11:18 AM	#16
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	Somebody help me... When was the last time the French won a war? I can't remember! The S&W is the first decent choice I've heard that they made in about two centuries. Even a blind pig finds an acorn sometimes, it seems! BTW, I'm a Frenchie by descent. However, FT pigs. They have never supported us since LaFayette! He would turn over in his grave if he knew them now. ------------------ Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp *45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel!* BigG "It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785

December 6, 1999, 11:27 AM	#17
Joseph Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Location: Cornelius, NC Posts: 695	I've done some more research on Manurhin revolvers. First off, I was getting the spelling wrong. There isn't a whole lot of data out there, except that the company made the Walther pistols after the war. I called Manurhin in France, and they no longer manufacturer the weapons, having turned it over to Chapues, a small manufactuer headed by Vincent Chapues. I spoke with him and they have no website as yet but hope to add one. Also, no US dealers, but he will sell directly to an FFL. His phone number is 011-33-477-500696 Fax is 011-33-477-501070 Send him a fax with your address and he will mail out a brochure. Very nice man with good english. There is also a website of a company in Australia which sells the Manurhin, and has some nice photos: http://www.sportingagencies.com.au/index1.htm Roon

December 6, 1999, 11:59 AM	#18
Kernel Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 1999 Location: Madison, WI.... "78 Square Miles Surrounded by Reality" Posts: 923	What I saw on TV could very well have been a French made revolver, especially if it was a licensed copy of a Smith, in the brief time it was shown there'd be no way to tell. I am aware that a number of high quality revolvers are made in Europe, I've just never seen one in stainless steel. Stainless is a different animal altogether. A company would have to have special tooling dedicated to just stainless production - a very expensive outlay for a small military contract - the two materials machine very differently. Do any of the companies mentioned above make & market stainless revolvers? -- Kernel

December 6, 1999, 12:15 PM	#19
Joseph Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Location: Cornelius, NC Posts: 695	The Manurhin comes in stainless, at least that's what shown on the sporting agency website, listed above.

December 6, 1999, 01:16 PM	#20
BrokenArrow Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Posts: 966	They also use the Glock 17L and Berettas. Like our SEALS, they can get, and use, just about anything, and they do. I've seen US SEALs w USP 40s for example. ------------------ >>>>---->

December 6, 1999, 01:41 PM	#21
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	I recall marcinko using issuing the 686 AND ruger mini 14 at 6 because they were STAINLESS and therefore better suited to marine environments. The french were perhaps copying this notion?? On two trips to paris in 97 I saw the military police at the airports carried (unlaoded) Fn_MAS rifles like the one pictured, while street cops carried MAB automatics on steel reincfoced shock cords on their belts. One lady cop i saw on guard duty outside place d'Italie was carrying a beretta machine pistol (not sure of the designation but it has two vertical grips and the stick magazine slants back into the action in front of the triggerguard) at port arms and was wearing a BP vest.. far more menacing than the gendarme who reminded my that there was no smoking on the metro. Of course it could have been a french "refinement" of an italian gun.. you know the french are VERY keen on developing and using their own technology. So it may indeed have been a manhurin 686 french seals carried while waging war on Greenpeace. Dr.Rob

December 6, 1999, 04:14 PM	#22
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,061	Read the page, the newest Manhurin with its onehanded release and ejection system sound really interesting. How does it work? Je ne sais pas. Glenn

December 6, 1999, 04:33 PM	#23
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,301	Nope Walt. I respectfully disagree. I was riding in a police car in Paris and asked about their guns. I saw a Ruger (pronounced Rooo-ge) and S&Ws. No doubt that Manurhins are out there too (perhaps the Gendarme Nationale). I'm not sure about how each police prefecture purchases firearms. The French were curious about what I carried and when I replied, "Sig-Sauer" I got blank stares. I then said, "Deustches Waffen" thinking they could at least pick up on German. More blank stares. "Tedeschi" I said in Italian. Finally, from some dark crevice of my brain, I said, "Allemand" to which they lit up. ------------------ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

December 6, 1999, 04:33 PM	#24
MusclesMcGee Junior member Join Date: November 13, 1999 Location: CA Posts: 238	Dr. Rob, I was in Paris three years ago and remeber something similar. At the Gar du Nord they had cops (?) patrolling the train station armed with what looked to be MP5s hung on a chain sling. They had those things pointed in every which direction with absolutely no discretion, and their finger on the trigger at all times.

December 6, 1999, 05:12 PM	#25
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	Oui, France was having a LOT of problems with terrorist bombings at that time and the gendarmes who prowl the metro stations did so armed to the teeth. In fact on my first trip in April, 97 you could NOT FIND a public trash can anywhere in Paris, seems they kept blowing up. Seriously and and all public trash cans were removed or welded shut and no businesses put out the garbage until RIGHT before the garbage trucks arrived. this was NOT the case in Dec. of 97, as I noticed the garbage cans were beginning to re-appear. Unfortunately for me the Louvre was on strike on both trips. ;( Dr.Rob