SA Autos Carried With Loaded Chamber

[jdscholer]

I've gotta know. Do any of you carry your hammerless single action autos - I guess you call them striker fired- with one in the hole and the safety on. I've talked to a few guys lately who do, and am kinda thinkin .

Is this stupid or am I just an old hen? I've never considered it to be safe. Are there some designs that are OK, and others not? Maybe some types with a total hammer block safety??

I'm more of a wheel gunner, but I've got a couple of semi-auto 22s and I've never considered carrying them totally stoked - or even stored that way. Am I wrong? jd

[golfnutrlv]

Do you mean like Glocks? Maybe I'm thinking of something your not. I carry a Glock 26 with one in the chamber all the time. I'm a big believer in the "best safety is in your head" idea.

Do I think the gun is going to go off? No, because there are three passive safeties in a Glock, and other striker fired pistols have similar devices.

I'm sure there are different opinions, but I feel safe with my Glock/striker guns.

[Shadi Khalil]

Carry a gun the way it was intended to be carried. Doing otherwise is what's unsafe.

[jdscholer]

How would you say for instance, that a Ruger 22 auto is meant to be carried? jd

[cracked91]

I never felt safe that way either, at least not with my hi point or cobra. I didn't even feel all warm and fuzzy when I started carrying my saftieless 66-5 loaded hiking, but I got used to that. And, I won't pretend to know anything about glocks, but isn't the first pull double action? And while we are on the topic, is there anyone who carryies a SA or DA/SA pistol that has a hammer with the one in the chamber and the hammer back with the saftey on?

[azredhawk44]

And while we are on the topic, is there anyone who carryies a SA or DA/SA pistol that has a hammer with the one in the chamber and the hammer back with the saftey on?

Yep. 1911 with one in the pipe, hammer cocked, safety on. Condition 1, the way it was meant to be carried.

Yep. CZ-75 with one in the pipe, hammer down, safety off. DA trigger pull for the first round, SA after that.

Yep. PA-63 with one in the pipe, hammer down, safety off. DA trigger pull for the first round, SA after that.

Yep. XD9 with one in the pipe. Striker fired single action. Squeeze the grip safety the same time as the trigger (I don't consider the trigger dingus a safety).

A gun without a round in the chamber? Why carry at all, then?

[B. Lahey]

It's not a problem... unless your shirt gets bunched up in the trigger guard on holstering.

[_W_]

I carry one in the chamber with me XD-9

[ChicagoTex]

How would you say for instance, that a Ruger 22 auto is meant to be carried? jd

Round chambered (which means the hammer's cocked), safety on.

And, I won't pretend to know anything about glocks, but isn't the first pull double action?

There is no difference between the first trigger pull and any other on Glocks, Springfield XDs, S&W M&Ps, Ruger SR9s, or Kahrs. All function more closely to "single-action only" than DAO in my opinion, as none have "second-strike capability". Each design has a varying degree of partial cocking of the striker when the slide is racked to load a round; in all designs, the striker is not cocked enough to discharge a round, and all designs are protected with firing pin blocks that won't let the striker make it to the primer unless the trigger is pulled anyway.

And while we are on the topic, is there anyone who carryies a SA or DA/SA pistol that has a hammer with the one in the chamber and the hammer back with the saftey on?

Yes, and yes. I carry my Dan Wesson Classic Bobtail M1911 cocked and locked, just as John Moses Browning intended. I also carry my CZ 75B, a DA/SA automatic with a manual thumb safety, cocked and locked. The CZ 75 is designed to be carried either way, C&L, or hammer-down, safety off.
If I had an H&K USP I wouldn't hesitate to carry that cocked and locked either.

[imthegrumpyone]

Read signature

[RT]

1911-Cocked and locked. Have a good holster for Glocks.

[Glasstream15]

My three carry guns are all DAO. The G19 is carried with "one up the pipe" and a holster that protects the trigger. Lots of practice with snap caps as it comes out of the holster the trigger finger is indexed OUTSIDE the trigger guard. And some practice at the range with live ammo.

The 2 Kel-Tecs are DAO and have very long and heavy triggers. I am not the least bit concerned about ADs with them.

A gun without a round chambered is an odd shaped rock.

[Kreyzhorse]

If the gun has a safety, I carry it with the safety on and one in the chamber. If it does not have a safety, I carry it with one in the chamber.

For example, my 1911 has a safety and it is carried with a round in the chamber, hammer cocked and safety on.

My Glock and my Ruger LCP do not have safeties but I carry them in a holster with a round in the chamber.

In my opinion, carrying a weapon like a Glock is really no different than carrying a gun with a safety. So long as your practice safe gun handling and keep the gun in proper holster you won't have an issue.

[LUPUS]

I've gotta know. Do any of you carry your hammerless single action autos - I guess you call them striker fired- with one in the hole and the safety on

Not myself, but one of my elderly shooting bodies used to carry a Browning Model 1922 in condition one with a round in the chamber ones up on a time, and he says he carried the pistol in that way confidently, .

[jdscholer]

Back to my original post example of SA only autos, such as my Woodsman, High Points, Rugers, or even the much loved Jennings; how safe would these guns be in a "dropped situation"?

Is there perhaps some aspect of the engaged safety that prevents a firing pin strike if the sear were to fail? jd

[comn-cents]

A Ruger MK2, Cocked & Locked, sure why not

[cracked91]

Back to my original post example of SA only autos, such as my Woodsman, High Points, Rugers, or even the much loved Jennings; how safe would these guns be in a "dropped situation"?

Thats what I have always wondered about, I think, though that I would be more incline to carry cocked and locked if It was not a hi point. But those are the only single action only pistols I have. You gotta love the DA/SA pistols

[pendennis]

And while we are on the topic, is there anyone who carryies a SA or DA/SA pistol that has a hammer with the one in the chamber and the hammer back with the saftey on?

For me:

• Colt XSE Combat Commander - Condition One
• Kimber Ultra Carry LEII - Condition One
• Kimber Classic Royal - Condition One
• Colt Gold Cup National Match - Condition One
• Browning Hi Power Mark III, .40 S&W - Condition One
• Browning Hi Power Hard Chrome, .40 S&W - Condition One
• HK USP Compact, .40 S&W - Condition One

When I carried a Glock 27, it was always done with one in the pipe. Most of us aren't capable of the "Israeli Draw". Seconds count.

A "safety" is a mental, and not mechanical condition.

[NavyLT]

Back to my original post example of SA only autos, such as my Woodsman, High Points, Rugers, or even the much loved Jennings; how safe would these guns be in a "dropped situation"?

Is there perhaps some aspect of the engaged safety that prevents a firing pin strike if the sear were to fail? jd

Don't know about the firearms you mentioned, but I carry my Taurus Mil Pro .45 the way it is designed to be carried, cocked and locked, safety on. If the gun is dropped and/or the sear fails, there is an internal safety that will provent the gun from firing if the trigger is not pulled fully to the rear. Both the sear AND the internal safety would have to fail for there to be a discharge without the trigger being pulled completely to the rear.

The single action trigger pull does cause me enough concern to carry it with the external safety on - if I could decock the gun I would carry it one in the pipe, decocked, safety off.

[kazanski612]

Single action (think 1911), by definition, the trigger only performs one action: releasing the hammer. So cocking the hammer for SA is making it safe. Many have a grip safety as well as a manual safety, plus many also have a safety notch in the hammer mechanism which prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin in the event of a drop. So a 1911, while carried "cocked and locked," isn't any more or less safe (IMO) than a Glock or a traditional double action semi-auto or anything else.

By contrast, a Beretta 92F is a traditional double action (also referred to as "SA/DA" or "DA/SA"), meaning that when the hammer is down, the trigger performs two functions: cocking and releasing. So carrying with hammer down, round in the chamber, safety on, results in the same effect as a cocked-and-locked 1911: you draw, disengage the manual safety, and fire.

But I agree with the other poster: the best safety is the one between your ears.

[christcorp]

Why do people say Condition 1 "Cocked and Locked" is the way the weapon was MEANT to be carried. Please provide some info. I spent a lot of time in the military. In 21 years; plenty of time using hand guns; we were taught that unless you were on patrol or the weapon was drawn, that you didn't have it Cocked and Locked with a round in the chamber.

Matter of fact; "Farrows Manual of Military Training" http://books.google.com/books?id=Vas...um=9#PPA315,M1 written in 1919-1920 page 315 says specifically; "Do not carry the pistol (1911) in the holster with the hammer cocked, and the safety lock on, EXCEPT in an emergency."

Now; if you think every second that you are out of your house that you are in an emergency situation, then carry the gun any way you want. But I keep seeing the statement; "THE WAY THE WEAPON WAS INTENDED TO BE CARRIED". Well, that's not how I was taught in the military; not the way I've seen it in training manuals. Would someone post a link where it says that it's SUPPOSE to be carried (In the holster) in condition 1.

[kazanski612]

A 1911 veteran can speak to this better than I. But I think if you're not "cocked and locked," it gives you one more thing to do after you draw. If you're in a shooting situation, you can't exactly call timeout while you rack the slide.

[kazanski612]

linky

Note that "half-cocked" is not a carry position.

[kazanski612]

another link

[kazanski612]

the more links I find, the better they get