Loaded chamber practical issues...

Hayward U. Buzzoff · September 18, 2006, 02:30 AM

This is not a question about the safety of carrying a modern handgun with a round in the chamber. I have confidence in the safety of this practice.

My question is about some practical issues.

Those who keep firearms loaded and chambers charged for home defense: Do you do this only with DA/SA weapons such as the USP, or DA revolvers, or are there people who leave glocks and 1911-type weapons, that are half or full-cocked in this condition, like this? I'm asking because it seems like there would always be more tension on the springs of the weapon in that case.

Also, here in CA we have to transport our firearms to the range unloaded- which would mean removing the round from the chamber. As far as I've heard it's not good to re-chamber a round in a semi-auto. Does this mean those rounds get tossed/wasted?

Finally, for those of you who carry with one in the pipe: Do you unload when you get home and, if so, do those rounds then get tossed?

So I guess my two concerns are for the springs of the weapon and for what happens to the rounds that are removed from the chamber when unloading.

Thanks all.

Axion · September 18, 2006, 02:53 AM

I'm intersted about the re-using the ejected round. A few weeks back at the range they called a cease fire, which is unusuall a this range, so I set my gun down and stepped back from the line. A range employee walked down the line and checked to make sure all the guns had empty chambers. He left the guns with slides locked back and the ejected round sitting next to it. Without thinking about it, after the cease fire was over, i stuck the round back in the magazine and kept shooting. Should I have tossed that one? Where would you toss it? I wouldn't think you'd want life rounds in the trash.

Majic · September 18, 2006, 02:57 AM

The spring would be under tension, but that's the design of the spring (you don't jack your car up every night to rest the suspension springs). Periodically you should pull the spring and measure it to see if it has taken a set. If so then just change it out as springs are cheap.
As for the cartridge you just measure the OAL (Over All Length) or compare it to another round. Untill you get bullet setback (where the bullet is pushed further in the case) don't worry about it. To keep from rechambering the same cartridge causing setback just move that cartridge further down in the magazine and load a different one. Generally a cartridge can be loaded several times before setback starts to occur. If you have rounds where the bullet has been setback most ranges can dispose of them for you or put the rounds in a container with penetrating or a very lightweight oil and let them soak for a few days. The oil will deactivate the primer.

Hkmp5sd · September 18, 2006, 04:04 AM

I carry a Glock 17 for CCW. It has a round chambered at all times. When I need to remove the round, I remove the magazine and eject the round. To re-insert the round, I insert the magazine, rack the slide, eject the magazine and top off the magazine with the previously ejected round. This does not harm the fiream nor the ammunition. Of course, I cycle my carry ammunition every couple of months.

stratus · September 18, 2006, 04:38 AM

Another guy with a Glock 17 here. The gun is ready to be used, that means round in the chamber. I keep my finger off the trigger until I'm ready to shoot, and trust in the firing pin safety and the drop safety to do the rest.

Being careful about bullet setback in rechambered rounds goes without saying.

KD5NRH · September 18, 2006, 05:43 AM

Quote:

So I guess my two concerns are for the springs of the weapon

Don't be; springs are cheap. I can replace every spring in my 1911 for less than I usually spend on practice ammo for a single afternoon. I have no idea how many rounds were put through it on the old springs, other than the thousand or so I fired. I also know that one of the 7 round mags spent at least two years stuffed full in the safe and it's still a pain to get the last two rounds in.

Quote:

and for what happens to the rounds that are removed from the chamber when unloading.

About once a week I clear my carry weapons and wipe them down. I do a quick visual inspection of the chamber round, and if it looks good (always has) it's used to top off the mag after I chamber another round. I shoot up my carry ammo whenever there's a good sale going, and I've never had a failure from it. (Currently Remington Golden Sabers in all three guns, though I consider Speer Gold Dots to be their equal in everything except the muzzle flash, and will sometimes carry both)

Hayward U. Buzzoff · September 18, 2006, 01:11 PM

Thanks, guys. I guess the springs don't seem to wear out noticeably faster when left under tension. That's great, I thank you for relating your experiences.

As for the bullet setback issue, I didn't realize that if there's no length difference then there's no problem, but it makes sense.

Axion, all the ranges I've been to have a bucket where you can dispose of live rounds- I imagine they have some way to dispose of it like the other poster mentioned.

Thanks again.

kansas45 · September 19, 2006, 01:31 AM

If I have to, I dump the mag, Eject the round out of the chamber,rack the slide again & check the chamber to make sure it's clear & re-insert the round in the mag. It dosen't hurt a thing!

PointOneSeven · September 19, 2006, 01:43 AM

I'm not licenced to conceal, so yes I pop the round out before and after work. After about a week, that round goes into the 'target ammo' pile, and I replace it with a fresh hollowpoint.

Mosin44az · September 19, 2006, 01:55 AM

I wouldn't worry about the ejected round at the range. I've never noticed any problems, ever.

My Glock 19 is my current house gun, with one in the chamber. The Glock striker spring is at much lower tension than others, like the XD9, so I am not worried, and have read here in this forum that cycling, not tension (at least within the design bounds of the spring) is what wears springs out anyway.

18DAI · September 19, 2006, 07:18 AM

I always have one in the pipe on my carry gun. My HK USPF 40 is my duty pistol. When I come home I unload it. I only chamber the 40 round two times. Set back is an issue with the 40 IMHO. The rounds that are chambered twice go in my range bag, for the next shooting session. During the night, it sits in the nightstand, with a full mag, without one in the chamber(I have little ones in the house). If you carry a semi auto without one in the pipe, I suggest you either get some more training, or convert to a different platform. While I understand, and have experienced the concern, things happen quickly, and you may not have time, or remember to rack a round when you need it. The S&W 3rd generation semi autos are what I reccomend to those who have concerns about carrying with a round chambered. There is a visible slab of metal between the hammer and firing pin when you decock the pistol. It's a confidence builder. My 0.02 Hope it helps. Regards 18DAI.

Thesenator · September 19, 2006, 07:59 AM

Springs wear from use, not static conditions. I keep my carry .45s cocked and locked and have for years with no degradation in performance.

Home defense guns are loaded but not chambered. Layered security will allow time for a cocking of any weapon within reach in the event its needed.

All magazines(every one I own) are kept loaded as they are useless without ammo in them. I have never had an issue with them not performing.

T. O'Heir · September 19, 2006, 10:33 PM

"...don't seem to wear out noticeably faster when left under tension..." Nope. The only thing that can take the temper out of a spring is heat. The bends in a mag spring can work harden with a great deal of use, but leaving a mag loaded won't do anything to the spring.

Mikeyboy · September 19, 2006, 10:58 PM

I always take my loaded magazine for my SD semi auto to the range. Sure it can be a little expensive shooting of the good stuff, but it forces you to have fresh ammo.

azredhawk44 · September 21, 2006, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Also, here in CA we have to transport our firearms to the range unloaded- which would mean removing the round from the chamber. As far as I've heard it's not good to re-chamber a round in a semi-auto. Does this mean those rounds get tossed/wasted?

All us reloaders would have a lot of trouble if a piece of brass couldn't handle being chambered more than once!

If bullet set-back is you concern (like a .357sig), you can always caliper-guage it.

If chambered by the natural action of the weapon, brass can be chambered dozens of times. Chambered and fired dozens of times, even.

The extractor will occasionally kill the rim, but most of the wear in my experience is in brass growth, trimming, thinning and finally splitting. That is caused from the stresses of firing, not chambering.

jfrey123 · September 21, 2006, 02:05 AM

I personally chamber my Glock 17 for home defense purposes. This is my go to gun, the one in my night stand and I want it to go bang when I pull the trigger. The mag loaded into it is full of "safety slugs" due to my living in an apartment. I have to unload it before taking my gun out to taget shoot. I just check the bullet that was chambered before reusing it, making sure the superficial scratches don't appear to have damaged the integrity of the round.

Since you slated this question for home defense weapons, what about leaving the slide open and locked? This would allow you to slip mags in and out with no problem, and only would require a slip of the thumb to chamber that round.

In an invastion situation, it is another step, but if you're worried about ruining your defense rounds, this would be a viable option.

stevelyn · September 21, 2006, 08:40 AM

The chamber is only unloaded for cleaning or dryfire practice.

September 18, 2006, 02:30 AM	#1
Hayward U. Buzzoff Member Join Date: August 7, 2006 Posts: 19	Loaded chamber practical issues... This is not a question about the safety of carrying a modern handgun with a round in the chamber. I have confidence in the safety of this practice. My question is about some practical issues. Those who keep firearms loaded and chambers charged for home defense: Do you do this only with DA/SA weapons such as the USP, or DA revolvers, or are there people who leave glocks and 1911-type weapons, that are half or full-cocked in this condition, like this? I'm asking because it seems like there would always be more tension on the springs of the weapon in that case. Also, here in CA we have to transport our firearms to the range unloaded- which would mean removing the round from the chamber. As far as I've heard it's not good to re-chamber a round in a semi-auto. Does this mean those rounds get tossed/wasted? Finally, for those of you who carry with one in the pipe: Do you unload when you get home and, if so, do those rounds then get tossed? So I guess my two concerns are for the springs of the weapon and for what happens to the rounds that are removed from the chamber when unloading. Thanks all.

September 18, 2006, 02:53 AM	#2
Axion Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 619	I'm intersted about the re-using the ejected round. A few weeks back at the range they called a cease fire, which is unusuall a this range, so I set my gun down and stepped back from the line. A range employee walked down the line and checked to make sure all the guns had empty chambers. He left the guns with slides locked back and the ejected round sitting next to it. Without thinking about it, after the cease fire was over, i stuck the round back in the magazine and kept shooting. Should I have tossed that one? Where would you toss it? I wouldn't think you'd want life rounds in the trash.

September 18, 2006, 02:57 AM	#3
Majic Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3,888	The spring would be under tension, but that's the design of the spring (you don't jack your car up every night to rest the suspension springs). Periodically you should pull the spring and measure it to see if it has taken a set. If so then just change it out as springs are cheap. As for the cartridge you just measure the OAL (Over All Length) or compare it to another round. Untill you get bullet setback (where the bullet is pushed further in the case) don't worry about it. To keep from rechambering the same cartridge causing setback just move that cartridge further down in the magazine and load a different one. Generally a cartridge can be loaded several times before setback starts to occur. If you have rounds where the bullet has been setback most ranges can dispose of them for you or put the rounds in a container with penetrating or a very lightweight oil and let them soak for a few days. The oil will deactivate the primer.

September 18, 2006, 04:04 AM	#4
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	I carry a Glock 17 for CCW. It has a round chambered at all times. When I need to remove the round, I remove the magazine and eject the round. To re-insert the round, I insert the magazine, rack the slide, eject the magazine and top off the magazine with the previously ejected round. This does not harm the fiream nor the ammunition. Of course, I cycle my carry ammunition every couple of months.

September 18, 2006, 04:38 AM	#5
stratus Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 881	Another guy with a Glock 17 here. The gun is ready to be used, that means round in the chamber. I keep my finger off the trigger until I'm ready to shoot, and trust in the firing pin safety and the drop safety to do the rest. Being careful about bullet setback in rechambered rounds goes without saying.

September 18, 2006, 01:11 PM	#7
Hayward U. Buzzoff Member Join Date: August 7, 2006 Posts: 19	Thanks, guys. I guess the springs don't seem to wear out noticeably faster when left under tension. That's great, I thank you for relating your experiences. As for the bullet setback issue, I didn't realize that if there's no length difference then there's no problem, but it makes sense. Axion, all the ranges I've been to have a bucket where you can dispose of live rounds- I imagine they have some way to dispose of it like the other poster mentioned. Thanks again.

September 19, 2006, 01:31 AM	#8
kansas45 Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: Southern Kansas, near I-35 Posts: 142	If I have to, I dump the mag, Eject the round out of the chamber,rack the slide again & check the chamber to make sure it's clear & re-insert the round in the mag. It dosen't hurt a thing!

September 19, 2006, 01:43 AM	#9
PointOneSeven Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2006 Posts: 579	I'm not licenced to conceal, so yes I pop the round out before and after work. After about a week, that round goes into the 'target ammo' pile, and I replace it with a fresh hollowpoint.

September 19, 2006, 01:55 AM	#10
Mosin44az Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2006 Posts: 2,627	I wouldn't worry about the ejected round at the range. I've never noticed any problems, ever. My Glock 19 is my current house gun, with one in the chamber. The Glock striker spring is at much lower tension than others, like the XD9, so I am not worried, and have read here in this forum that cycling, not tension (at least within the design bounds of the spring) is what wears springs out anyway.

September 19, 2006, 07:18 AM	#11
18DAI Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 2,156	I always have one in the pipe on my carry gun. My HK USPF 40 is my duty pistol. When I come home I unload it. I only chamber the 40 round two times. Set back is an issue with the 40 IMHO. The rounds that are chambered twice go in my range bag, for the next shooting session. During the night, it sits in the nightstand, with a full mag, without one in the chamber(I have little ones in the house). If you carry a semi auto without one in the pipe, I suggest you either get some more training, or convert to a different platform. While I understand, and have experienced the concern, things happen quickly, and you may not have time, or remember to rack a round when you need it. The S&W 3rd generation semi autos are what I reccomend to those who have concerns about carrying with a round chambered. There is a visible slab of metal between the hammer and firing pin when you decock the pistol. It's a confidence builder. My 0.02 Hope it helps. Regards 18DAI.

September 19, 2006, 07:59 AM	#12
Thesenator Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Posts: 126	Springs wear from use, not static conditions. I keep my carry .45s cocked and locked and have for years with no degradation in performance. Home defense guns are loaded but not chambered. Layered security will allow time for a cocking of any weapon within reach in the event its needed. All magazines(every one I own) are kept loaded as they are useless without ammo in them. I have never had an issue with them not performing.

September 19, 2006, 10:33 PM	#13
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...don't seem to wear out noticeably faster when left under tension..." Nope. The only thing that can take the temper out of a spring is heat. The bends in a mag spring can work harden with a great deal of use, but leaving a mag loaded won't do anything to the spring.

September 19, 2006, 10:58 PM	#14
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	I always take my loaded magazine for my SD semi auto to the range. Sure it can be a little expensive shooting of the good stuff, but it forces you to have fresh ammo.

September 21, 2006, 02:05 AM	#16
jfrey123 Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2006 Location: Reno, NV. Posts: 1,026	I personally chamber my Glock 17 for home defense purposes. This is my go to gun, the one in my night stand and I want it to go bang when I pull the trigger. The mag loaded into it is full of "safety slugs" due to my living in an apartment. I have to unload it before taking my gun out to taget shoot. I just check the bullet that was chambered before reusing it, making sure the superficial scratches don't appear to have damaged the integrity of the round. Since you slated this question for home defense weapons, what about leaving the slide open and locked? This would allow you to slip mags in and out with no problem, and only would require a slip of the thumb to chamber that round. In an invastion situation, it is another step, but if you're worried about ruining your defense rounds, this would be a viable option.

September 21, 2006, 08:40 AM	#17
stevelyn Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Fairbanksan in exile to Aleutian Hell Posts: 2,655	The chamber is only unloaded for cleaning or dryfire practice.