Why did Bond do this?

[The Scandinavian]

Reading "Diamonds Are Forever" by Ian Fleming, I notice that reference is made to Bond spending hours filing the firing pin on his Beretta .25 to a point.

..er... Why? Of course this is a work of fiction, I was just wondering if there was any sense in this.

Cheers, TS.

[JWR]

I haven't read the book nor do I know anything about Mr. Fleming, but I suspect he was trying to make Bond look like a firearms expert by throwing some terms around that he learned at some point. Just like the Law & Order Special Victims Unit episode that had the 14 round 50 AE Desert Eagle magazines, which were the same size as the "standard" magazines and happened to be illegal in N.Y.C. Just MHO.

[Mike Irwin]

Filing it to a point?

About the only thing that would do is pierce the primer. Maybe not all that big a deal in a small, low intensity handgun, but it still can't be good for it.

[LawDog]

I hate to admit this, but the late Ian Fleming was as anti-gun as they come. He probably knew less about firearms and gunsmithing than Robert Ludlum (shudder).

LawDog

[Will Beararms]

Why did Bond do this? Because he was like most in Britain----------clueless about firearms and firearms ownership. Go rent Patriot tonight and you'll really be hacked off about all things British.

[abrahamsmith]

Ian Fleming knew absolutely nothing about firearms..

IIRC, in Dr. No (I think), `M' makes Bond throw out a Beretta for a Walther PPK which he claims has "delivery like a brick through a plate glass window"

[Ding]

Compared to the .25 Beretta it does!

[George Hill]

Good point.

I must note however - that Bond has left the PPK in favor of the P99. Then in the last movie - he left the P99 in favor of the 1911.

Bond has become better educated about guns.

[abrahamsmith]

There are some other points:

1. If Bond could have a wrist watch with a pretty powerful laser in it, why couldn't he jsut carry some sort of laser weapon? If a wrist watch laser can melt steel, imagine what could be done in something the size of a subcompact pistol!

2. Re "The Man with the Golden Gun" [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]?! Okay, so it was a singleshot, but still, GOLD?? that's pretty dern soft for a barrel material and pretty heavy for a handgun.... why not just make your gun out of LEAD? I'd think the firing mechanism would jsut simply bend, and running a cleaning rod through the thing would push away the rifling!!

Even if it was just gold-PLATED, why bother? extra mass, easier to see, and less funcitonal...

rant over.

[Ding]

1. If Bond could have a wrist watch with a pretty powerful laser in it, why couldn't he jsut carry some sort of laser weapon? If a wrist watch laser can melt steel, imagine what could be done in something the size of a subcompact pistol!

Short range. Extremely limited charge.

2. Re "The Man with the Golden Gun" [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]?! Okay, so it was a singleshot, but still, GOLD?? that's pretty dern soft for a barrel material and pretty heavy for a handgun.... why not just make your gun out of LEAD? I'd think the firing mechanism would jsut simply bend, and running a cleaning rod through the thing would push away the rifling!!

I don't think Scaramanga cared about that too much. Image is everything, you know.

[CWAdams]

Another big screw-up is putting a PPK in a Berns-Martin shoulder holster -- the only retention device in the B-M is the spring clam-shell that secures around the CYLINDER of the REVOLVER!! A semi- would fall out, since the whole rig is positioned "grip down".

[MP-5]

Maybe to be used as a olive holder for those "shaken & not stirred" martinis!

[Trevor]

Comments cancelled. Good thread though.

[Edited by Trevor on 11-25-2000 at 08:34 PM]

[bullfrog99]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Re "The Man with the Golden Gun" [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]?! Okay, so it was a singleshot, but still, GOLD?? that's pretty dern soft for a barrel material and pretty heavy for a handgun.... why not just make your gun out of LEAD? I'd think the firing mechanism would jsut simply bend, and running a cleaning rod through the thing would push away the rifling!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Taurus and magnum research make "Golden Guns" maybe it was coated with titanium nitride- harder than chrome, not sure about it's durability though. If it were made of solid gold, it would work better if thrown than if it were shot!

[George Hill]

So Bond went from a .25 to a .32? Q wasnt as clever as he seemed...
Why didn't Bond carry a lazer pistol?
Because Lazers are for Wuss Trekies not Real Men like Bond!

[The Scandinavian]

... further on in the same book is a reference to the Martini "shaken, not stirred". I had always assumed that this was something that they had got wrong in the films. Surely cocktails with gin in them should be stirred, and NOT shaken??!! Shaking with the ice dilutes the drink too much, and spoils the flavour.

Thanks for the input about the firing pin thing. It did sound wierd...

[Mort]

Actually, "brick through a plate glass window" isn't that inaccurate. I'm sure the ballistic profiles are similar.

[D2V]

Actually he never discarded the P99 in favor of the 1911. He lost the P99 (I don't recall how) and used the BGs 1911.

[The Scandinavian]

I've just done the ENERGY calculations...

One housebrick weighs approximately 61728 grains(!)
If we throw it through the window at about 30 fps, a fairly hefty throw, we get, using MVV/450800:
123 ft Lbs.

According to reloading data from http://www.vihtavuori.fi, a 71 grain 32ACP travels at about 1001 fps. This gives us, by the same calculation:
157 ft Lbs.

The 32ACP could be said, therefore, to have "delivery like a brick through a plate glass window"...

[Marshal]

The paperback copies of Fleming's Bond books published in the late 60's had a picture of Fleming on the back with a cigarette in one hand and a pistol in the other. Guess which one killed him?

[James K]

Fleming was widely touted as having been in "British Intelligence" in WWII. I seem to recall it was a desk job. He supposedly had some firearms "expert" advise him, but either he completely ignored the guy or the "expert" was an idiot. Then the movie makers got things even more messed up (changing a Walther PPK to a Model 1922 Browning so a silencer could be put on, for example) and things went down hill from there.

If you like the Bond stuff, consider it a spoof on spy fiction and have fun, but don't try to figure out the gun garbage - you will go nuts.

jim

[Apple a Day]

That line about a brick through a plate glass window reminded me of a "stupid criminal" caught-on-tape sort of thing. The security camera for a store caught a guy walking up to the plate glass window with a brick. The guy threw it, it bounced off the window and knocked the guy out.
Not much to recommend itself as a reference to power.

[DUDE]

BOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!! thats all i need to say if you have seen the new Bond Movie thats how he lost his frist Walther P99-9mm but by the end of the Movie he had a new one and i'd say for a 9mm that the Walther P99-9mm is one of the best that Bond can carry

[HumpMan]

I'm working from my poor memory here, but here's what I think:

1) I tend to remember that the scene where Major Boothroyd, the armourer, is called in to M's office to officially replace Bond's .25 Beretta was in the book Dr. No. It might certainly have been in a different movie, however, as they were not done in order.

2) I could have sworn that I have seen a picture of a Berns-Martin (or is it Burns-Martin?) holster for semi-autos. But even if it wasn't really a Berns-Martin, there have been a number of spring-clip horizontal or upside-down holsters for small autos, I should think.

3) Bond's signature martini was actually made with Vodka, I believe. It was in the first novel, Casino Royale, which has really never been made into a proper movie. He was going to name it after his love interest at the time, Vesper Lynd. It wasn't just a regular vodka martini, as it had one other liquor in it (not vermouth) but I forget exactly what that was.

4) IIRC, Scaramanga's "golden gun" was a gold plated Colt Peacemaker. I think he may have used gold bullets, though. In the movie, it was some absurd put-together device made by Colibri (the cigarette lighter company) for the film.

5) It is very true that Fleming did not really know very much about firearms, but he did ask for advice from time to time. There is a famous letter, supposedly where the advisor is telling Fleming that there is no such thing as a "28 calibre Biretta." Other notable firearms that appear in the novels include the S&W Centennial (6-inch barrel?), a .45 long barreled Colt revolver kept under the driver's seat of Bond's Bentley (I presume a WWII Colt or S&W), and a Savage 99 lever-action rifle in .250-3000.

Once I posted a link to a website where a dedicated Bond fan is speculating on what kind of handgun Bond should be carrying. If there is interest, I'll try and find it again.

the HumpMan

[PVerdieck]

Also in "From Russia with Love" they gave him an AR-7 "sniper rifle".