Lethality of Birdshot

[AlKillya]

I'm a believer of you train with what you use. If I plan on shooting Buckshot, I train with Buckshot. If I plan on shooting high grain 9mm, that's what I take to the range, etc.

Now, there's no argument that in an emergency if killing power is needed Buckshot is superior. And I will always keep some Buckshot in my gunsafe. However, it is expensive, especially to train with.

If I have to use a type of Birdshot to train, I also would like it to be lethal in a home defense situation if it ever came down to it. So looking at a home defense scenario, using Birdshot anywhere from 10-17ft, where penetrating a wall is not an issue, what Birdshot is lethal (if any)? Or what is a cheaper alternative I may not of thought of?

[hogdogs]

At the short distance you mention, it is quite likely to be lethal... however the possibility of it not stopping the threat post haste is too great for me to worry with.

Cheap buck shot is +/- $10 bucks for 15 rounds and suits me fine, goes BANG when I need it to.
Brent

[AlKillya]

Hogdogs

Which Birdshot would you recommend? Would Lead #4 shot be fine.

$10 for 15 rounds?!
I have to pay $7 for just 5 rounds of 2 3/4in. buckshot.

[Uncle Ben]

It's about $6 for 5 rounds of 00 buckshot for me locally, yet I can get 25 rounds of birdshot/target loads for the same $6. I agree that over $1 a round is far too high (at least for me and some others) to get any good practice with. Birdshot will have to do for me, since I think practice with lighter loads would be a lot better than no practice at all.

[hogdogs]

I wouldn't be able to suggest a birdshot as I question the #3 buck in my 20 gauge...

My 00 buck price is for 15 round box from wal-mart...
Winchester Super X.
Brent

[Carne Frio]

Go here:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

then scan down the page to:

" Birdshot as Defense Load "

[AlKillya]

Uncle Ben: Yup, that's exactly what I pay as well, but the high price over here in Texas brings it to about 7 bucks.

Hoggs: Yeah, I should probably mention what gauge I'm using. Haha, it's a 12 Ga. Remington 870.

[Uncle Ben]

I don't think the OP is really considering birdshot for his defense load, but for practice only, so that the practice is actually affordable.

Great article at boxotruth, by the way. I just got done reading it.

[Rampant_Colt]

You may practice using 3 dram equivalent birdshot which are considered heavy trap/skeet loads. For home and defense scenarios use reduced recoil 00 and 000 buckshot. Recoil is approximately the same as the 3 dram trap/skeet loads

...and remember: buckshot for birdies; buckshot for bad guys. Repeat.

[oneounceload]

You can practice with pigeon loads - 1-1/4 oz of 7-1/2 at 3-3/4 DE (about 1300 fps) - they'll give you an idea without shelling out for 00 buck

[AlKillya]

Carne Frio: Thanks for the post, I just finished reading. Damn good article.

Rampant_Colt: That's a pretty good idea, I didn't think of that; which is exactly what I want. I'm looking for the same kind of feel of what I'll use to protect myself if I ever have too. What exactly is "Dram" I see it on most of the boxes of ammo, but I don't really have much of a clue about what it means.

[TxGun]

What exactly is "Dram" I see it on most of the boxes of ammo, but I don't really have much of a clue about what it means.

-----------------------

According to SAAMI:

DRAM EQUIVALENT
The accepted method of correlating relative velocities of shotshells loaded with smokeless propellant to shotshells loaded with black powder. The reference black powder load chosen was a 3 dram charge of black powder, with 1 1/8 oz. of shot and a velocity of 1200 fps. Therefore, a 3 dram equivalent load using smokeless powder would be with 1 1/8 oz. of shot having a velocity of 1200 fps. or 1 1/4 oz. of shot and a velocity of 1165 fps. A 3 1/4 dram equivalent load might have 1 1/8 oz. of shot and a velocity of 1255 fps. Abbreviated Dram Equiv.


http://www.saami.org/Glossary/display.cfm?letter=D

In case you don't know what SAAMI is:

http://www.saami.org/

[AlKillya]

Thanks for the quote TX

I've googled it, but it still sounds like gibberish to me.

[ishida336]

Ammunition To Go has some pretty good deals on some reduced-recoil 00 loads.

[DasFriek]

Walmart is a great source for Buckshot and some slugs on occasion.
2 3/4 00# and 3" 00# 15 rounds for $10-$12 depending on brand.

Im not so much a believer i need to shoot "only" buckshot when i practice since thats what i keep loaded for HD. I mix it up with birdshot,buckshot and slugs so my shoulder never knows whats coming at it.

Ive ordered from http://www.ammunitiontogo.com before and will do so again.
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...gauge-buckshot
I didnt much look at prices on shotgun ammo since Walmart has it so plentiful. My closest ones has 3" 00buck for $12 for 15 which i don't find expensive at all.

[AlKillya]

Dasfriek: That's where I buy my ammo, Walmart or Academy. You and Hogdogs both pay $10to $12 for 15?

Me and uncle Buck both pay about $7 for just five shots at our Walmarts.

[DasFriek]

They have been having 15 pack box's of the 00Buck in 2 3/4" and 3" both.
Those were Winchester iirc and Remington has a 15 round box for $10

Maybe ask about them trying to order them the next chance you get, I know ive seen them in several locations locally so its not an isolated thing i wouldn't think.

I also have a local gun store thats almost as good as Walmart and can get rifled slugs at $4-$5 a 5 pack

Dicks sporting goods recently had birdshot at $5 a box of 25 recently, I haven't looked in the last 2 weeks tho. Thats a Brick and Mortar store also.

Or just save up for a good order at ammotogo and buy all at once so the shipping isnt so bad, That could end up being cheaper than Walmart if done right.

[ADB]

Go here:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

then scan down the page to:

" Birdshot as Defense Load "

I prefer more scientific testing. Low-brass 7 1/2 shot fired from ten feet away will penetrate 6 inches in ballistic gelatin, which is a fatal strike. As I've said before and will say again, anything out of a 12 gauge barrel will be highly lethal at close range.

[xm21]

You and huckle buck pay a lot for buckshot,how much y'all payin' for high grain 9 mm?

[Bill DeShivs]

ADB-
Haven't you heard? According to the FBI penetration tests, if it doesn't penetrate at least 19 inches, the bad guy just gets mad!
I mean, a 6 inch deep hole, 3/4 inch in diameter just requires a band aid and a kiss, and the boo boo heals right up!

[troy_mclure]

i posted it on here before, but forget the exact stuff.

a guy in my battalion shot a home invader with bird shot, it blinded him, knocked out most of the teeth, and i think removed the jaw.

guy died in the hospital a few days later.

sounds like a plenty good fight stopper right there.

[troy_mclure]

Go here:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

then scan down the page to:

" Birdshot as Defense Load "

so he tested buck and slugs, but reiterated second hand(or i heard from my cousins wife's 3rd uncle) info on the bird shot?

[Moloch]

There you go:

Birdshot.
REMEMBER, gelatin does NOT have bones!


And here 00 unplated buck:


Looking at both pictures, what would I use? Buckshot, no doubt. Birdshot is for birds! Buckshot is for buck-sized game.

[Grandpatime]

I think the new kick ass turkey loads wood stop someone who is running away.
I agree buckshot/slug are expensive even though it the same amount of of lead.
So what u do it take the bird shot out mold it into a slug and pop it back in .Bam 25 rds of slugs for 6$

[mikejonestkd]

Take a look at some testing on gel :


http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...e1190fb1dab722