Time to Raise the Bar at TFL

**Rich Lucibella** · January 26, 2006, 05:21 PM

Folks-
As Internet access has grown, so have these Forums. While we have a much larger pool of Members to interact with, we also see an increasing number of, well, "impetuous" posters. As a result we're seeing an increase in posts which are virtually unreadable due to outrageously bad spelling, grammar, lack of punctuation, two paragraph run-on sentences and the like.

Before the gnashing of teeth begins, no one is going to be tasked as the Grammar Police....in fact, very few will even notice our efforts in this area. However, we will be taking action against the most egregious shredding of the English language. When we see posts that fail to rise to a common 6th grade level of composition, we will be quietly deleting those posts; counseling and, if necessary, ejecting the Member is also on the table.

While we do not expect every post to be worthy of a Rhodes Scholar, we remind you that your entire interaction here is based solely on your writing. Members form opinions and images of you based on that alone. Outsiders and fence sitters will most certainly form opinions about gun owners in general based on post form and content observed on this board. First impressions are easily made and difficult to change. Even a brilliant thought will be universally dismissed, unless it is communicated with at least minimal skill.

If you lack reasonable writing skills, tools are available today to help you better communicate your thoughts in writing. Many Browsers, including Firefox, now offer built in Spell-Check components or add-ins. Another spelling alternative can be found at iespell.com. Microsoft Word offers this and much more. We recognize that English is not a first language to many of our Members. We have always made allowances for this and will continue to do so.

Again, we all make mistakes: keystroke errors, misspellings, lack of proper grammar and the like. That's OK, so long as it remains the exception rather than the rule. Once it rises to the level of rendering a post unreadable or embarrassing to the TFL community, we will have to step in....and we hope our Members will support that effort by working with us behind the scenes.

For the first time in eight years, we've added to the TFL Policies to reflect the value we place on this issue. We ask each of you to assist us in raising the bar.

Best regards-
Rich Lucibella
on behalf of the TFL Staff

Wildalaska · January 26, 2006, 05:27 PM

No hack for a spell check right in the interface?

PS I can spell, I have ex-kw-is-ayte grammatical skills, I just type like a dyslexic two fingered chimp on crack

WildandhowdoispellcheckmyannoyingyetosorelevantcognomenAlaska

Wildalaska · January 26, 2006, 05:30 PM

Disregard, I have my own succint, yet oh so elegant solution

WilddoesthiscountasarunonsentenceAlaska

azredhawk44 · January 26, 2006, 05:32 PM

Props to Rich & the other staff...

I dun be hatin it when them thar kuntry folk be jawin on bout th' last polecat they sassifrassed fur supper.

THEN THERE ARE THE CAPITAL LETTER COMMANDOS THAT USE RUN ON SENTENCES TO ATTEMPT TO GARNER YOUR ATTENTION BUT END UP LOSING YOU BECAUSE THEY END UP TALKING ABOUT HOW THE LUNAR LANDER IS THE BEST ADVANCEMENT FOR 2ND AMMENDMENT RIGHTS BY THE TIME THEY ARE DONE THE DOLPHINS HAVE ALREADY LEFT AND THANKED US FOR ALL THE FISH.

ThenThere'sWildIGottaBeCraftyAndNotUseSpacesAlaskaButHe'sAGoodOneAndIAlways MakeSureToReadHisGobbledygookBecauseItIsAlwaysTopical.

All seriousness, thanks guys. Some of it was getting bad. The rest is just "character."

SMITH910 · January 26, 2006, 05:35 PM

Sounds good to me, nothing wrong with keeping the standards a little higher for a quality forum. Makes for better reading and understanding as well.

+1

Wildalaska · January 26, 2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

THEN THERE ARE THE CAPITAL LETTER COMMANDOS THAT USE RUN ON SENTENCES TO ATTEMPT TO GARNER YOUR ATTENTION BUT END UP LOSING YOU BECAUSE THEY END UP TALKING ABOUT HOW THE LUNAR LANDER IS THE BEST ADVANCEMENT FOR 2ND AMMENDMENT RIGHTS BY THE TIME THEY ARE DONE THE DOLPHINS HAVE ALREADY LEFT AND THANKED US FOR ALL THE FISH.

Remember boys and girls, caps lock is not your friend

WildthereisaprogramtokillitAlaska

3 gun · January 26, 2006, 06:13 PM

As much fun as parody and jest can be, it does get scary when you can't tell if it is what the writer had in mind

A few extra seconds to do a quick reread and spell check isn't to much to ask. It will make knowing when to use

or

in a reply simpler. At least I hope it will

HappyGunner · January 26, 2006, 06:18 PM

Good!!! Oh Good!! great goodness!!!

I surly will try my best.

tjhands · January 26, 2006, 06:56 PM

Rich is right. In a face-to-face discussion, there are a number of ways to get a point across; hand gestures and other body language, the spoken word with stresses and inflections put on certain words, etc. With an internet discussion all those options are gone (except for stressing the words we want to stress with italics or BOLD print), and we are left with only the written word.
If you think what you have to say is important enough to type out, it's important enough to make an effort to type it correctly. Making an effort doesn't mean that it's going to be perfect, but it ought to keep the readers from saying, "what is this guy trying to tell me?"

Barr · January 26, 2006, 07:02 PM

I must admit if I read a post that is outrageously bad whether it is spelling or just awful grammar, I do not usually listen to that persons opinion that well. Especially if it is a reloading issue or load; if they do not come across as intelligent enough to construct a halfway decent sentence I am certainly not going to trust the information they give about ammunition.

American4guns · January 26, 2006, 07:03 PM

I do agree whole heartedly.I have witnessed some serious rape of english.
However putting focus on the so called "kuntry folk" is uncalled for, and though i'm not a"kunrty folk" i would take offense at such a comment.
Its slightly discriminatory.I bet i have atleast one typo in this post.:-)

With do respect to the Admin,
A4G

Sulaco2 · January 26, 2006, 07:04 PM

I was unaware that the appearance of this forum was the reason for its existence. I take exception to your rather egregious and high handed decision. If the post is well thought out and not profane, not insulting, makes a valid point but the writer is not skilled and you are only concerned about appearance I am not sure this forum is the place for freedom loving peoples of any kind.

Wildalaska · January 26, 2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

I was unaware that the appearance of this forum was the reason for its existence. I take exception to your rather egregious and high handed decision. If the post is well thought out and not profane, not insulting, makes a valid point but the writer is not skilled and you are only concerned about appearance I am not sure this forum is the place for freedom loving peoples of any kind.

whoa Sul, I dont think its that far...its something that I think annoys everyone:

Like if U were gonna build a mashingun which bullet would U choose and why my uncle shot a Tomsen once in WW2 and he said after my grandma said it was a kewl gun so can u just buy them or R they in mooseums

WildorthingstothataffectAlaska

HappyGunner · January 26, 2006, 07:14 PM

Quote Barr:
I must admit if I read a post that is outrageously bad whether it is spelling or just awful grammar, I do not usually listen to that persons opinion that well. Especially if it is a reloading issue or load; if they do not come across as intelligent enough to construct a halfway decent sentence I am certainly not going to trust the information they give about ammunition.
================
WHAT!!!! ????

American4guns · January 26, 2006, 07:18 PM

lmfao wild ..

I do agree it is annoying and makes it hard to read someones post when they cannot construct a sentence .I just would'nt pin point any one group of people based of demographics and or region of residence.Also is it really fair to exclude someone because perhaps they were not as fortunate as others in school?

**Rich Lucibella** · January 26, 2006, 07:29 PM

sulaco-
I'm sorry you feel that way and I understand that, to some, this is a very controversial issue. But the fact remains that TFL caters to intelligent discussion. As I stated, no one is gonna start correcting the use of "their" vs "they're", "YMMV", or even "gonna"

.

Two examples of the types of posts we're talking about:
1) The ones that are typed so quickly and with such minimal thought as to make them unintelligible.
2) The growing trend on the internet to use a kiddy type of shorthand.

Both are embarrassing to the poster and this community. Save these for AOL Instant Messenger and Chats. Here you have all the time in the world to actually compose your statement; even a chance to re-read and edit it.

Quote:

Also is it really fair to exclude someone because perhaps they were not as fortunate as others in school?

One need not have a great deal of schooling to express himself with a basic level of skill; one need only read.

Others:
Please, we all know the types of posts we're referring to. There really is no need to mimic or parody them here. Agreed?
Rich

azredhawk44 · January 26, 2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

However putting focus on the so called "kuntry folk" is uncalled for, and though i'm not a"kunrty folk" i would take offense at such a comment.
Its slightly discriminatory.I bet i have atleast one typo in this post.:-)

With do respect to the Admin,
A4G

I consider myself "kuntry folk" too, I just did really well in spelling class. I'm a hick at heart. 90% of my hobbies are "kuntry".

Country folk were only 1 of 3 targets I touched on.

With due respect to the Admin,

AZRedhawkKuntryFolk44

czc3513 · January 26, 2006, 07:45 PM

so how do you feel about-
2 = too
4 = for
8 = ate
b = be
c = see
f = !@#$%
n = in
p = pee
r = are
u = you
y = why
ppl, pic, pix, etc....
And words without vowels...

American4guns · January 26, 2006, 07:50 PM

Rgr that azred .i be undastundin yew.i sorry if i hed fer insluted you

model 25 · January 26, 2006, 07:54 PM

This is your house and I am just a visitor. As long as I feel welcome I will stay and share in the growth of this house. However when the reigns get too tight I will move on to more fertile ground.

Freedom of speech has a responsibility to be civil as if the person was right in front of you. I never post anything I wouldn't say to your face. I am a free man though and will call things as I see them. If at any point you don't want me in your house just say so.

Your call.

25

Wildalaska · January 26, 2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Please, we all know the types of posts we're referring to. There really is no need to mimic or parody them here. Agreed?

Sorry Rich couldnt resist

Quote:

one need only read.

Turn off the TV!!! Destroy the video games!

WildnomoreoprahAlaska

azredhawk44 · January 26, 2006, 07:56 PM

+1

All kidding aside, I really like model_25's post above here. Good philosophy.

Greg Bell · January 26, 2006, 08:08 PM

I think the new policy is a good idea. Bravo!

HappyGunner · January 26, 2006, 08:20 PM

http://www.combatcarry.com/

American4guns · January 26, 2006, 08:47 PM

hey gunner .thanks for the site.Ok i down loaded the ieSpell.com .i wrote this reply 3 hrs ago but it took me 2hrs and 40 minutes to spell Check it..so many buttons.Ok i agree there has to be some sort of decorum.:barf:

January 26, 2006, 05:21 PM	#1
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Time to Raise the Bar at TFL Folks- As Internet access has grown, so have these Forums. While we have a much larger pool of Members to interact with, we also see an increasing number of, well, "impetuous" posters. As a result we're seeing an increase in posts which are virtually unreadable due to outrageously bad spelling, grammar, lack of punctuation, two paragraph run-on sentences and the like. Before the gnashing of teeth begins, no one is going to be tasked as the Grammar Police....in fact, very few will even notice our efforts in this area. However, we will be taking action against the most egregious shredding of the English language. When we see posts that fail to rise to a common 6th grade level of composition, we will be quietly deleting those posts; counseling and, if necessary, ejecting the Member is also on the table. While we do not expect every post to be worthy of a Rhodes Scholar, we remind you that your entire interaction here is based solely on your writing. Members form opinions and images of you based on that alone. Outsiders and fence sitters will most certainly form opinions about gun owners in general based on post form and content observed on this board. First impressions are easily made and difficult to change. Even a brilliant thought will be universally dismissed, unless it is communicated with at least minimal skill. If you lack reasonable writing skills, tools are available today to help you better communicate your thoughts in writing. Many Browsers, including Firefox, now offer built in Spell-Check components or add-ins. Another spelling alternative can be found at iespell.com. Microsoft Word offers this and much more. We recognize that English is not a first language to many of our Members. We have always made allowances for this and will continue to do so. Again, we all make mistakes: keystroke errors, misspellings, lack of proper grammar and the like. That's OK, so long as it remains the exception rather than the rule. Once it rises to the level of rendering a post unreadable or embarrassing to the TFL community, we will have to step in....and we hope our Members will support that effort by working with us behind the scenes. For the first time in eight years, we've added to the TFL Policies to reflect the value we place on this issue. We ask each of you to assist us in raising the bar. Best regards- Rich Lucibella on behalf of the TFL Staff __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

January 26, 2006, 06:13 PM	#7
3 gun Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: N41 24.283 W81 43.370 N.E.Ohio Posts: 561	As much fun as parody and jest can be, it does get scary when you can't tell if it is what the writer had in mind A few extra seconds to do a quick reread and spell check isn't to much to ask. It will make knowing when to use or in a reply simpler. At least I hope it will __________________ Change you can believe in... Pre-65 US silver coins NRA RSO & Certified Instructor in rifle, pistol, shotgun. An unloaded pistol is a paperweight. Opportunity knocks..Trouble kicks down the door.

January 26, 2006, 06:18 PM	#8
HappyGunner Senior Member Join Date: September 18, 2004 Posts: 1,302	Oh yes raise the bar Good!!! Oh Good!! great goodness!!! I surly will try my best.

January 26, 2006, 07:14 PM	#14
HappyGunner Senior Member Join Date: September 18, 2004 Posts: 1,302	What!!!!!???? Quote Barr: I must admit if I read a post that is outrageously bad whether it is spelling or just awful grammar, I do not usually listen to that persons opinion that well. Especially if it is a reloading issue or load; if they do not come across as intelligent enough to construct a halfway decent sentence I am certainly not going to trust the information they give about ammunition. ================ WHAT!!!! ????

January 26, 2006, 08:08 PM	#23
Greg Bell Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 2,056	I think the new policy is a good idea. Bravo! __________________ Correct anwers to gun questions to save time... Carry: j-frame Home/combat: Hk P30 or Beretta 92G Doomsday: Colt 6920 with Aimpoint t-2

January 26, 2006, 05:27 PM	#2
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,171	No hack for a spell check right in the interface? PS I can spell, I have ex-kw-is-ayte grammatical skills, I just type like a dyslexic two fingered chimp on crack WildandhowdoispellcheckmyannoyingyetosorelevantcognomenAlaska

January 26, 2006, 05:30 PM	#3
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,171	Disregard, I have my own succint, yet oh so elegant solution WilddoesthiscountasarunonsentenceAlaska

January 26, 2006, 05:32 PM	#4
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Props to Rich & the other staff... I dun be hatin it when them thar kuntry folk be jawin on bout th' last polecat they sassifrassed fur supper. THEN THERE ARE THE CAPITAL LETTER COMMANDOS THAT USE RUN ON SENTENCES TO ATTEMPT TO GARNER YOUR ATTENTION BUT END UP LOSING YOU BECAUSE THEY END UP TALKING ABOUT HOW THE LUNAR LANDER IS THE BEST ADVANCEMENT FOR 2ND AMMENDMENT RIGHTS BY THE TIME THEY ARE DONE THE DOLPHINS HAVE ALREADY LEFT AND THANKED US FOR ALL THE FISH. ThenThere'sWildIGottaBeCraftyAndNotUseSpacesAlaskaButHe'sAGoodOneAndIAlways MakeSureToReadHisGobbledygookBecauseItIsAlwaysTopical. All seriousness, thanks guys. Some of it was getting bad. The rest is just "character."

January 26, 2006, 05:35 PM	#5
SMITH910 Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2005 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 282	Sounds good to me, nothing wrong with keeping the standards a little higher for a quality forum. Makes for better reading and understanding as well. +1

January 26, 2006, 06:56 PM	#9
tjhands Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Posts: 1,718	Rich is right. In a face-to-face discussion, there are a number of ways to get a point across; hand gestures and other body language, the spoken word with stresses and inflections put on certain words, etc. With an internet discussion all those options are gone (except for stressing the words we want to stress with italics or BOLD print), and we are left with only the written word. If you think what you have to say is important enough to type out, it's important enough to make an effort to type it correctly. Making an effort doesn't mean that it's going to be perfect, but it ought to keep the readers from saying, "what is this guy trying to tell me?"

January 26, 2006, 07:02 PM	#10
Barr Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2006 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 286	I must admit if I read a post that is outrageously bad whether it is spelling or just awful grammar, I do not usually listen to that persons opinion that well. Especially if it is a reloading issue or load; if they do not come across as intelligent enough to construct a halfway decent sentence I am certainly not going to trust the information they give about ammunition.

January 26, 2006, 07:03 PM	#11
American4guns Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 122	I do agree whole heartedly.I have witnessed some serious rape of english. However putting focus on the so called "kuntry folk" is uncalled for, and though i'm not a"kunrty folk" i would take offense at such a comment. Its slightly discriminatory.I bet i have atleast one typo in this post.:-) With do respect to the Admin, A4G

January 26, 2006, 07:04 PM	#12
Sulaco2 Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,247	I was unaware that the appearance of this forum was the reason for its existence. I take exception to your rather egregious and high handed decision. If the post is well thought out and not profane, not insulting, makes a valid point but the writer is not skilled and you are only concerned about appearance I am not sure this forum is the place for freedom loving peoples of any kind.

January 26, 2006, 07:18 PM	#15
American4guns Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 122	lmfao wild .. I do agree it is annoying and makes it hard to read someones post when they cannot construct a sentence .I just would'nt pin point any one group of people based of demographics and or region of residence.Also is it really fair to exclude someone because perhaps they were not as fortunate as others in school?

January 26, 2006, 07:45 PM	#18
czc3513 Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: Oregon. Posts: 709	so how do you feel about- 2 = too 4 = for 8 = ate b = be c = see f = !@#$% n = in p = pee r = are u = you y = why ppl, pic, pix, etc.... And words without vowels...

January 26, 2006, 07:50 PM	#19
American4guns Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 122	Rgr that azred .i be undastundin yew.i sorry if i hed fer insluted you

January 26, 2006, 07:54 PM	#20
model 25 Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: out west Posts: 892	This is your house and I am just a visitor. As long as I feel welcome I will stay and share in the growth of this house. However when the reigns get too tight I will move on to more fertile ground. Freedom of speech has a responsibility to be civil as if the person was right in front of you. I never post anything I wouldn't say to your face. I am a free man though and will call things as I see them. If at any point you don't want me in your house just say so. Your call. 25

January 26, 2006, 07:56 PM	#22
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	+1 All kidding aside, I really like model_25's post above here. Good philosophy.

January 26, 2006, 08:20 PM	#24
HappyGunner Senior Member Join Date: September 18, 2004 Posts: 1,302	Another choice http://www.combatcarry.com/

January 26, 2006, 08:47 PM	#25
American4guns Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 122	hey gunner .thanks for the site.Ok i down loaded the ieSpell.com .i wrote this reply 3 hrs ago but it took me 2hrs and 40 minutes to spell Check it..so many buttons.Ok i agree there has to be some sort of decorum.:barf: