9mm camp carbine load

vulcan · October 15, 2002, 09:35 PM

Hi, Has anyone a favorite load for optimizing performance in the camp carbine? I like to have a hot load to take advantage of the longer barrel & strong action. I kind of remembering a European factory load that was only for use in sub guns & carbines. Is there a US made equivilent ? I'm still new to reloading & don't want to experiment with my limited knowledge, So If anyone have a favorite load along these lines, I appreciate your help.Thanks!

griz · October 15, 2002, 10:41 PM

I've never reloaded 9mm for a carbine but have for 38s and 357s. The principle will be the same. I’m also assuming that when you say optimizing performance you mean more velocity.

Although almost all loads will probably benefit from a longer barrel, the loads with slower powders will gain the most. These are the ones that will be producing the highest velocities even with pistol length barrels, AA #7, Power Pistol, Blue Dot, and similar ones. You might even try the slowest pistol powders, but you will have trouble finding data from which to work.

sricciardelli · October 15, 2002, 10:43 PM

http://stevespages.com/page8c.htm

john kilgore · October 16, 2002, 02:19 PM

In 9mm, the Camp carbine responds better to lighter bullet weights and slower powders.
Some time back, American Rifleman ran a test and used 90, 115, 115+P, 124, 124+p, and 147gr bullets in factory offerings.
Test was run also in comparison to 4" bbl. pistol.
All velocities were higher in rifle than pistol except w/147gr.
Velocities with 147gr loads were a tad lower from rifle due barrel friction after pressure peak. (very small powder charges w/147gr bullet due to small volumn of case with longer/heavier bullet)
Biggest gains were with +P loadings and lightest bullets -hence highest powder charge weights and slowest burning rates.
BlueDot, AA-#7, and perhaps Hodgdon 'Longshot' will give greatest velocity gains, and 124gr bullet will give highest energies.

But; overall, you won't see dramatic increases.
I would try the 124gr w/BlueDot for greatest benefit. Remember, max charge weights are not due to firearm strength/design, but due to cartridge case and primer limitations.

Don't exceed the published data. In 9mm, .40S&W, 10mm -you do so at your own peril, and maybe that of others nearby as well !!
(I've had "blown primers, and cases with loads well below published maximums with these three cartridges, but none resulted in gun or bodily damage- except for magazine base plates blown off!)

Steve's "pages" are the best compilation of data I've seen. Most of it is directly from the manufacturer's data. Its all from handguns though, I don't know of any data from carbines except for Accurate Arms that lists a few.

The 9mm is a very efficient handgun cartridge, so most loadings will give only a 10-15% increase in velocity in the Carbine.
And with heaviest bullets (147gr and up) will actually show a decrease in velocities/energy.

john kilgore · October 16, 2002, 02:27 PM

I forgot, ---
The 9mm load your thinking of was the IMI (Samson brand) 115gr "Black Tip" SMG load. Basically a +p+ load. The Florida Marine Police used this load for their "Tactical Unit". It would shoot through a 3/4" Marine plywood at 1meter underwater fired from a Glock M17. Not a pratical load for general use though.
The Remington +p 115 Jhp and if you can find it, The Winchester 127gr Ranger "Talon" +P+ will be "The Best", but sales are generally limited by distributers to L.E. agencies. I have seen it available at gun shows however, for about $27.00- $35.00 a box.

vulcan · October 16, 2002, 08:23 PM

I got a lot of good info here,Thanks to all . I will proceed with caution.

October 15, 2002, 09:35 PM	#1
vulcan Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2002 Posts: 265	9mm camp carbine load Hi, Has anyone a favorite load for optimizing performance in the camp carbine? I like to have a hot load to take advantage of the longer barrel & strong action. I kind of remembering a European factory load that was only for use in sub guns & carbines. Is there a US made equivilent ? I'm still new to reloading & don't want to experiment with my limited knowledge, So If anyone have a favorite load along these lines, I appreciate your help.Thanks!

October 16, 2002, 08:23 PM	#6
vulcan Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2002 Posts: 265	Thanks I got a lot of good info here,Thanks to all . I will proceed with caution.

October 15, 2002, 10:41 PM	#2
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	I've never reloaded 9mm for a carbine but have for 38s and 357s. The principle will be the same. I’m also assuming that when you say optimizing performance you mean more velocity. Although almost all loads will probably benefit from a longer barrel, the loads with slower powders will gain the most. These are the ones that will be producing the highest velocities even with pistol length barrels, AA #7, Power Pistol, Blue Dot, and similar ones. You might even try the slowest pistol powders, but you will have trouble finding data from which to work.

October 15, 2002, 10:43 PM	#3
sricciardelli Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: Montana Posts: 489	http://stevespages.com/page8c.htm

October 16, 2002, 02:19 PM	#4
john kilgore Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2002 Location: east georgia Posts: 125	In 9mm, the Camp carbine responds better to lighter bullet weights and slower powders. Some time back, American Rifleman ran a test and used 90, 115, 115+P, 124, 124+p, and 147gr bullets in factory offerings. Test was run also in comparison to 4" bbl. pistol. All velocities were higher in rifle than pistol except w/147gr. Velocities with 147gr loads were a tad lower from rifle due barrel friction after pressure peak. (very small powder charges w/147gr bullet due to small volumn of case with longer/heavier bullet) Biggest gains were with +P loadings and lightest bullets -hence highest powder charge weights and slowest burning rates. BlueDot, AA-#7, and perhaps Hodgdon 'Longshot' will give greatest velocity gains, and 124gr bullet will give highest energies. But; overall, you won't see dramatic increases. I would try the 124gr w/BlueDot for greatest benefit. Remember, max charge weights are not due to firearm strength/design, but due to cartridge case and primer limitations. Don't exceed the published data. In 9mm, .40S&W, 10mm -you do so at your own peril, and maybe that of others nearby as well !! (I've had "blown primers, and cases with loads well below published maximums with these three cartridges, but none resulted in gun or bodily damage- except for magazine base plates blown off!) Steve's "pages" are the best compilation of data I've seen. Most of it is directly from the manufacturer's data. Its all from handguns though, I don't know of any data from carbines except for Accurate Arms that lists a few. The 9mm is a very efficient handgun cartridge, so most loadings will give only a 10-15% increase in velocity in the Carbine. And with heaviest bullets (147gr and up) will actually show a decrease in velocities/energy.

October 16, 2002, 02:27 PM	#5
john kilgore Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2002 Location: east georgia Posts: 125	I forgot, --- The 9mm load your thinking of was the IMI (Samson brand) 115gr "Black Tip" SMG load. Basically a +p+ load. The Florida Marine Police used this load for their "Tactical Unit". It would shoot through a 3/4" Marine plywood at 1meter underwater fired from a Glock M17. Not a pratical load for general use though. The Remington +p 115 Jhp and if you can find it, The Winchester 127gr Ranger "Talon" +P+ will be "The Best", but sales are generally limited by distributers to L.E. agencies. I have seen it available at gun shows however, for about $27.00- $35.00 a box.