Short-barrel .380 v 9mm - Page 2

Webleymkv · July 7, 2013, 02:48 PM

Quote:

This subject comes up often on gun & tactics forums.
I, for one, would feel better armed with a sub-compact .357sig caliber or a 9x19mm(9mm Luger) over the 9x18mm(.380acp).

About 3 years ago, I read a article in the printed NRA member magazine where they did a detailed T&E of a few pocket type .380acp pistols. Ruger, SIG, NAA, Kahr, Magnum Research, Kel Tec, etc.
All of the major .380acp pistols tested had problems.
Feeding & cycles are harder on semi-auto pistols as the get more compact.
Toss in JHPs or frangibles and there may be more issues.

So if reliability is compromised when miniaturizing a semi-auto pistol, why should we assume that a subcompact 9mm would be any more reliable than a subcompact .380?

It seems to me that if reliability is the prime concern, a slightly larger .380 such as the Walther PPK or Sig P232 would be a better choice than a subcompact 9mm.

Tomac · July 7, 2013, 04:32 PM

Micro .380's can be made a tad smaller than micro 9mm's.
Kahrs seem to be about as small as you can go in either caliber w/o major compromises in cost, reliability, recoil, controllability, ammo type, etc, yet still have decent reliability.

The following have all been 100% from the start (Kahrs both had the recommended pre-shoot prep/clean/lube before firing the first time, the SIG's were first shot straight out of the box):
Counter-clockwise from top right: SIG P250 compact 9mm, SIG P250 subcompact .380, Kahr P380 subcompact .380, Kahr CM9 subcompact 9mm.

Tomac

.38Catt · July 7, 2013, 05:02 PM

Orionengnr,

You have'nt seen the 6th graders in my neighborhood.

Regards,

.38Catt

bt380 · July 7, 2013, 10:14 PM

Ammo penetration of 10" vs 16" isn't the only thing to think about. Many folks are maybe 11" thick from the chest to back. Will leave out the obese and super thin for general discussion. The side to center is much less excluding the arm. To get to a vital point, the depth isn't all that far if you get past bone (rib, sternum, spine). The cavitation from a 10" penetration round will probably be less than the 16" penetration round. If you have a 16" penetration, it will probably be a thru n thru. You may say then I might hit someone else w/ a thru n thru round. Think about the misses!!! Unless you hit a major CNS bundle or a main hydraulic line, there may be enough adrenaline to keep them going strong and plenty of time to get even w/ you. Head shots aren't always a bet since there have been cases where the penetration didn't achieve due to the skull. Whether you have a 22 or 45, shot placement w/ multiple hits always rules. I was really impressed w/ GSW's when those same individual kept on fighting after being wounded.

Tomac · July 7, 2013, 10:59 PM

*Ideally* a frontal shot is no more than 11" front to back. However, there may be intermediate barriers for the bullet to penetrate before even reaching the chest, the bg's arms being a prime example (if a bg is attacking you, odds are he has at least one arm extended in front of him at appx chest level, holding a weapon of some kind that your bullet may have to penetrate first).

At the beginning of the infamous Miami shootout, Platt took a 9mm Silvertip to the chest that stopped 1" from his heart. The bullet would have penetrated the heart and ended the fight right then and there except it had to pass through Platt's forearm first before entering the chest.
Tomac

July 7, 2013, 04:32 PM	#27
Tomac Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Caldwell, Idaho Posts: 511	Micro .380's can be made a tad smaller than micro 9mm's. Kahrs seem to be about as small as you can go in either caliber w/o major compromises in cost, reliability, recoil, controllability, ammo type, etc, yet still have decent reliability. The following have all been 100% from the start (Kahrs both had the recommended pre-shoot prep/clean/lube before firing the first time, the SIG's were first shot straight out of the box): Counter-clockwise from top right: SIG P250 compact 9mm, SIG P250 subcompact .380, Kahr P380 subcompact .380, Kahr CM9 subcompact 9mm. Tomac __________________ "His Universe, His rules." - Tomac

July 7, 2013, 10:59 PM	#30
Tomac Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Caldwell, Idaho Posts: 511	Ideally a frontal shot is no more than 11" front to back. However, there may be intermediate barriers for the bullet to penetrate before even reaching the chest, the bg's arms being a prime example (if a bg is attacking you, odds are he has at least one arm extended in front of him at appx chest level, holding a weapon of some kind that your bullet may have to penetrate first). At the beginning of the infamous Miami shootout, Platt took a 9mm Silvertip to the chest that stopped 1" from his heart. The bullet would have penetrated the heart and ended the fight right then and there except it had to pass through Platt's forearm first before entering the chest. Tomac __________________ "His Universe, His rules." - Tomac

July 7, 2013, 05:02 PM	#28
.38Catt Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2006 Posts: 255	Orionengnr, You have'nt seen the 6th graders in my neighborhood. Regards, .38Catt

July 7, 2013, 10:14 PM	#29
bt380 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2012 Posts: 331	Ammo penetration of 10" vs 16" isn't the only thing to think about. Many folks are maybe 11" thick from the chest to back. Will leave out the obese and super thin for general discussion. The side to center is much less excluding the arm. To get to a vital point, the depth isn't all that far if you get past bone (rib, sternum, spine). The cavitation from a 10" penetration round will probably be less than the 16" penetration round. If you have a 16" penetration, it will probably be a thru n thru. You may say then I might hit someone else w/ a thru n thru round. Think about the misses!!! Unless you hit a major CNS bundle or a main hydraulic line, there may be enough adrenaline to keep them going strong and plenty of time to get even w/ you. Head shots aren't always a bet since there have been cases where the penetration didn't achieve due to the skull. Whether you have a 22 or 45, shot placement w/ multiple hits always rules. I was really impressed w/ GSW's when those same individual kept on fighting after being wounded.