Advice for cheapest .223 and 9mm loads possible

Machineguntony · June 23, 2013, 01:39 AM

Hi guys and girls. This is a topic that might be of interest to other like minded cheapskates, like me.

I am a little shocked by the current cost of components. Ten years ago I was able to reload 50 rounds of 9mm for about $4. I just assembled my first box today, and my math says I paid $9 for 50 rounds (cost of powder, primer, and projectile). This price doesn't include brass (or the reloader and dies, etc) bc brass can be reused, unlike primer, powder, and projectiles. Adding to my costs is that bc I'll be shooting through a silencer, I have to shoot all jacketed projectiles. I'm not sure what unjacketed projectiles would do if shot through an mp5, even unsilenced.

I don't consider time to be a cost factor bc I enjoy reloading, it doesn't seem like a job, and I can crank em out with my Dillon 650.

Question. I will be shooting .223 out of a full auto m16, and 9mm out of a full auto mp5. This means accuracy is not important. I just want the loads to cycle the action.

What is the cheapest possible powder, per load, that can be used for .223? Cheapest for 9mm?

I'm curious, per 50 rounds of 9mm, what are your costs? How about cost of 20 rounds of .223?

For anyone curious. I did the math on my new reloading set up. I'm using a fully equipped Dillon 650 with all possible upgrades. After the cost of dies and other equipment, like scale, trimmer, brass cleaner, etc, I would have to shoot 15,500 rounds just to break even.

My reloading set up costed $2500. I'm saving $8/box of 50 9mm (I save $8 a box bc at Cabellas a box if 50 is $17, and it costs me $9 a box). At that rate, I would have to shoot 312 boxes, or 15,600 rounds, just to break even.

I forgot to include, I had to pay $500 for my reloading bench. So that's $500 more.

poline · June 23, 2013, 09:45 AM

Now, here is a thought, you do not have to worry if the stores don't have ammo for sale.

WESHOOT2 · June 23, 2013, 10:08 AM

5.5g Unique, 115g JACKETED BULLET. Use an OAL appropriate for your gun.
CCI500, WSP.
I most highly recommend using a bullet with its base fully jacketed (most common JHPs are like this).

Some cans want different powders; try 5.5g Ramshot Silhouette.

MAKE TEN TEST TEN.
Do NOT fire full-auto before confirming proper function.

Beentown71 · June 23, 2013, 10:42 AM

Not usually one for the "read your manual" but....read your manual. It will have what powders that are recommended for you caliber and then you can see what uses less.

For 9mm I chose Tighgroup to test because it uses so little amount of powder. If I remember correctly IMR3031 uses very little powder (21gr ish).

Have fun with the full autos. For the advice I expect next time I am in your area to shoot the MP5.

WESHOOT2 · June 23, 2013, 10:57 AM

Titegroup may not be appropriate for full-auto.......and/or through cans......

mikld · June 23, 2013, 01:43 PM

If you're really cheap you could crush up some match heads for powder...

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp
http://ultimatereloader.com/tools/re...ts-calculator/
http://www.trapshooters.com/rlcalcadv.htm

First three on a google search for "reloading cost calculators"

velillen · June 23, 2013, 02:22 PM

First off, cheap 9mm and cheap 223 and saving money is sort of relative. These are alreayd some of the cheapest pistol and rifle ammo avaliable so you wont save as much as say reloading 45-70 or 338lapua.

But for 223

Hornady (or other) 55gr FMJ-BT 1,000 -$120 or so
8lb jug of surplus powder and a 25gr charge - $100 bucks or so
1k primers - 30 bucks or so
using your own brass - free

That yields .19 a round. Or 9.73 per 50. With waiting and shopping around you could find them cheaper i am sure.

As for 9mm my current load

1k 147gr PLATED bullets -$94
1k primers - 30 bucks
5lb jug of Accurate 2 (3.5gr charge for me) - $75

Gives me 12 cents a round or ~6.50 a box of 50.

Im probably close to 2500 in equipment as well but i reload for pretty much all my calibers. Like i mentioned the real savings is in the biggest calibers like 45acp where i can load it for ~160 per 1k. Vs when i started 45acp was 320 or so per 1k. Then theres 45-70 where a round for me is .44 cents. Compared to 1.50 for factory. That adds up fast!

Also in todays market....you kind of get to reload whatever you can find haha.

Misssissippi Dave · June 23, 2013, 03:04 PM

The main reason you don't want to run lead bullets while suppressed is it tends to lead the baffels up pretty quickly with certain loads. It is a real pain to remove the lead in some cans. Plated or jacketed bullets reduce this problem. I also suggest a clean burning round as well.

Powder is the cheapest component for reloading pistol ammo. It isn't a place I would normally consider trying to save money. You can load 124 grain FMJ to sub-sonic levels that should cycle your gun with AA5 powder. The cost per round in powder is about 1.5 cents each. This is assuming you went to Powder Valley and purchased it in the 8 pound jug along with 10 to 15k of primers to off set the haz-mat charges. Primers about 3 cents per round when purchased in bulk. 124 grain MG FMJ bullets are about 10 cents when purchases by the case. This totals up to around $7.25 per box of 50. Even allowing for a 10% increase in pricing it still come to under $8 per box of 50.

Montana Gold bullets are quite good and a little expensive. I figure if I can use them and load for less than what you are paying then maybe you might want to shop around some more. Maybe this fall or winter stocks will come back enough to allow you shop for better pricing. The key has always been to buy in bulk to get better pricing.

In the past I have always gotten my powder from Powder Valley and most of my primers as well. I would not put in an order unless I was going to get at least 16 pounds of powder or 8 pounds of powder and 10k or more in primers to off set the extra fees. When the weight of the order gets to be too much you start getting additional fees added. It makes it worth placing the order if I am getting more than 8 pound of powder and/or 10k in primers.

It is easier to load 9 mm with 147 grain bullets and keep them sub-sonic with many powders and still cycle a fully auto gun. Those bullets do cost more to purchase too.

Machineguntony · June 23, 2013, 03:50 PM

Thanks for the info, fellas.

I still am in shock. $9 for a box of 50. Ten years ago, when I was into the shooting sports, a box of 9mm LOADED was $9.99 for target loads, and a box of 50 reloads costed about $4 in components.

Now I get back into shooting and ammo and powder is hard to find, and twice as expensive. Six months ago, as i was contemplating getting back into this hobby, someone told me that ammo and powder was hard to find. I thought they were joking.

Some of these prices to me do not make sense. I was at Caebelas yesterday. New .223 cases were $75 for 100. At that price, I should just buy loaded .223 and reuse the cases.

I placed a big order of powder with Midsouth shooters. I like using Midsouth bc they will hold the entire order until its complete and charge a single hazmat fee. Some places like midway USA will ship your order as it comes available, and it might result in several hazmat charges. Thanks for the advice about Pwder Valley. I'll look into it.

Machineguntony · June 23, 2013, 03:58 PM

Mississippi Dave,

Will 115 grain 9mm cycle a full auto? That's all I could find, and my reloads currently all use 115 grain. I can't test them yet because I am still waiting on my BATFE stamps.

velillen · June 23, 2013, 04:09 PM

115 should work just fine in an unsuppressed mp5. ive shot one on full auto before with 115gr ammo. But it was a stores so could have had a lighter spring or something too as far as i know.

Suppressed im not sure. I know my sig p226 wont cycle with 115 when suppressed but i dont know on with suppressed mp5 type

Machineguntony · June 23, 2013, 04:15 PM

If the sig 226 suppressed won't cycle, can the problem be solved by using a maximum load? Wouldnt that create more pressure, and solve the cycling issue?

I also have a 226 and I ordered a threaded barrel through a storm lake dealer. Can't wait for my stamps to come in.

Btw, thanx for the recipe. $6.50 a box is awesome. I'm shopping for those components as I type.

Also, is it just my faulty memory, or is the cost of projectiles/bullets twice what it was ten years ago. I remember that I could buy a box of 500 bullets for about $50. Now it costs about $90-100, prior to shipping.

Powder has gone up but not that much. I remember powder costing about $15-20 per pound, now it's about 21-27 for a pound.

I think the main culprit is the bullet cost. The secondary culprit is that the shortage requires you to load with whatever component that you can find. I remember standing in my gun store ten years ago, and I would do calculations as to which bullets were cheapest, and which 1 pound powder gave me the most charges. Now its load whatever you can find, so matter the cost.

Misssissippi Dave · June 23, 2013, 08:49 PM

I normally load more for accuracy. While you are working up a load for your gun you can probably look more for when it cycle properly. Most of the time you are going to have the bullet going over 1000 fps with a 115 grain bullet to cycle it properly. A heavier bullet will have more energy to move the slide properly without going super sonic. You will find the suppressor will work better when you are shooting sub sonic ammo. Yes, you can shoot higher velocity ammo but you are going to have a lot more noise when you do. It is kind of hard to suppress the noise of breaking the sound barrier.

The lightest bullet I can think of that will cycle the gun reliably and still be sub sonic is a 124 grain bullet. Most people do prefer 147 grain bullets. Even loaded at or near the top end they will still be sub sonic.

Machineguntony · June 23, 2013, 11:02 PM

I see your point. I'm looking at velocities, and you are right. 115 grain to reliably cycle the action and keep subsonic is nearly impossible.

Very interesting. Thanks for the info. I learned something new today.

wet · June 24, 2013, 01:50 AM

machineguntony, try powerbond

velillen · June 24, 2013, 10:20 AM

I'm like Dave, I load for accuracy and not to make the gun just function. My load for 115 is accurate and great but won't cycle. My load for 147 is also very accurate and cycles with the suppressor. So I simply use 115 when shooting unsuppressed and 147 when suppressed. I actually often swap barrels as well since I have a threaded and unthreaded barrel.

As for bullets...I can still find played bullets for 50-60 per 500. Fmj...no clue since I don't load those. Lead can be found slighly cheaper as well. The key is to order in bulk. The more you order the cheaper it gets

serf 'rett · June 24, 2013, 08:03 PM

I would be horrified also if 50 rounds of my 9mm was $9.00. I feel $6.00 to $6.50 is bad enough. The key is - Buy in bulk. The key to buying in bulk is watching major online supplier web sites for the products you want.

Machineguntony · June 25, 2013, 03:13 AM

I'm trying to buy in bulk. I must bought 10,000 .224 projectiles from midsouthshooters. 10,000 costed about $1100, after shipping. Not too bad.

The reason my reloads were so expensive is because I bought the last 9mm bullets at cabelas. I didn't have a selection, I must bought my only overpriced option. Im horrified too. $9 a box of 50 reloads! But it's better than paying $17 a box for new ammo.

June 23, 2013, 01:39 AM	#1
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Advice for cheapest .223 and 9mm loads possible Hi guys and girls. This is a topic that might be of interest to other like minded cheapskates, like me. I am a little shocked by the current cost of components. Ten years ago I was able to reload 50 rounds of 9mm for about $4. I just assembled my first box today, and my math says I paid $9 for 50 rounds (cost of powder, primer, and projectile). This price doesn't include brass (or the reloader and dies, etc) bc brass can be reused, unlike primer, powder, and projectiles. Adding to my costs is that bc I'll be shooting through a silencer, I have to shoot all jacketed projectiles. I'm not sure what unjacketed projectiles would do if shot through an mp5, even unsilenced. I don't consider time to be a cost factor bc I enjoy reloading, it doesn't seem like a job, and I can crank em out with my Dillon 650. Question. I will be shooting .223 out of a full auto m16, and 9mm out of a full auto mp5. This means accuracy is not important. I just want the loads to cycle the action. What is the cheapest possible powder, per load, that can be used for .223? Cheapest for 9mm? I'm curious, per 50 rounds of 9mm, what are your costs? How about cost of 20 rounds of .223? For anyone curious. I did the math on my new reloading set up. I'm using a fully equipped Dillon 650 with all possible upgrades. After the cost of dies and other equipment, like scale, trimmer, brass cleaner, etc, I would have to shoot 15,500 rounds just to break even. My reloading set up costed $2500. I'm saving $8/box of 50 9mm (I save $8 a box bc at Cabellas a box if 50 is $17, and it costs me $9 a box). At that rate, I would have to shoot 312 boxes, or 15,600 rounds, just to break even. I forgot to include, I had to pay $500 for my reloading bench. So that's $500 more.

June 23, 2013, 10:08 AM	#3
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	good in sub-guns; not guessing 5.5g Unique, 115g JACKETED BULLET. Use an OAL appropriate for your gun. CCI500, WSP. I most highly recommend using a bullet with its base fully jacketed (most common JHPs are like this). Some cans want different powders; try 5.5g Ramshot Silhouette. MAKE TEN TEST TEN. Do NOT fire full-auto before confirming proper function.

June 23, 2013, 10:42 AM	#4
Beentown71 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,560	Re: Advice for cheapest .223 and 9mm loads possible Not usually one for the "read your manual" but....read your manual. It will have what powders that are recommended for you caliber and then you can see what uses less. For 9mm I chose Tighgroup to test because it uses so little amount of powder. If I remember correctly IMR3031 uses very little powder (21gr ish). Have fun with the full autos. For the advice I expect next time I am in your area to shoot the MP5.

June 23, 2013, 10:57 AM	#5
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	just guessing Titegroup may not be appropriate for full-auto.......and/or through cans......

June 23, 2013, 04:15 PM	#12
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	If the sig 226 suppressed won't cycle, can the problem be solved by using a maximum load? Wouldnt that create more pressure, and solve the cycling issue? I also have a 226 and I ordered a threaded barrel through a storm lake dealer. Can't wait for my stamps to come in. Btw, thanx for the recipe. $6.50 a box is awesome. I'm shopping for those components as I type. Also, is it just my faulty memory, or is the cost of projectiles/bullets twice what it was ten years ago. I remember that I could buy a box of 500 bullets for about $50. Now it costs about $90-100, prior to shipping. Powder has gone up but not that much. I remember powder costing about $15-20 per pound, now it's about 21-27 for a pound. I think the main culprit is the bullet cost. The secondary culprit is that the shortage requires you to load with whatever component that you can find. I remember standing in my gun store ten years ago, and I would do calculations as to which bullets were cheapest, and which 1 pound powder gave me the most charges. Now its load whatever you can find, so matter the cost. Last edited by Machineguntony; June 23, 2013 at 04:25 PM.

June 23, 2013, 09:45 AM	#2
poline Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2009 Location: Richmond,Va Posts: 292	Now, here is a thought, you do not have to worry if the stores don't have ammo for sale.

June 23, 2013, 01:43 PM	#6
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	If you're really cheap you could crush up some match heads for powder... http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp http://ultimatereloader.com/tools/re...ts-calculator/ http://www.trapshooters.com/rlcalcadv.htm First three on a google search for "reloading cost calculators"

June 23, 2013, 02:22 PM	#7
velillen Member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 93	First off, cheap 9mm and cheap 223 and saving money is sort of relative. These are alreayd some of the cheapest pistol and rifle ammo avaliable so you wont save as much as say reloading 45-70 or 338lapua. But for 223 Hornady (or other) 55gr FMJ-BT 1,000 -$120 or so 8lb jug of surplus powder and a 25gr charge - $100 bucks or so 1k primers - 30 bucks or so using your own brass - free That yields .19 a round. Or 9.73 per 50. With waiting and shopping around you could find them cheaper i am sure. As for 9mm my current load 1k 147gr PLATED bullets -$94 1k primers - 30 bucks 5lb jug of Accurate 2 (3.5gr charge for me) - $75 Gives me 12 cents a round or ~6.50 a box of 50. Im probably close to 2500 in equipment as well but i reload for pretty much all my calibers. Like i mentioned the real savings is in the biggest calibers like 45acp where i can load it for ~160 per 1k. Vs when i started 45acp was 320 or so per 1k. Then theres 45-70 where a round for me is .44 cents. Compared to 1.50 for factory. That adds up fast! Also in todays market....you kind of get to reload whatever you can find haha.

June 23, 2013, 03:04 PM	#8
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	The main reason you don't want to run lead bullets while suppressed is it tends to lead the baffels up pretty quickly with certain loads. It is a real pain to remove the lead in some cans. Plated or jacketed bullets reduce this problem. I also suggest a clean burning round as well. Powder is the cheapest component for reloading pistol ammo. It isn't a place I would normally consider trying to save money. You can load 124 grain FMJ to sub-sonic levels that should cycle your gun with AA5 powder. The cost per round in powder is about 1.5 cents each. This is assuming you went to Powder Valley and purchased it in the 8 pound jug along with 10 to 15k of primers to off set the haz-mat charges. Primers about 3 cents per round when purchased in bulk. 124 grain MG FMJ bullets are about 10 cents when purchases by the case. This totals up to around $7.25 per box of 50. Even allowing for a 10% increase in pricing it still come to under $8 per box of 50. Montana Gold bullets are quite good and a little expensive. I figure if I can use them and load for less than what you are paying then maybe you might want to shop around some more. Maybe this fall or winter stocks will come back enough to allow you shop for better pricing. The key has always been to buy in bulk to get better pricing. In the past I have always gotten my powder from Powder Valley and most of my primers as well. I would not put in an order unless I was going to get at least 16 pounds of powder or 8 pounds of powder and 10k or more in primers to off set the extra fees. When the weight of the order gets to be too much you start getting additional fees added. It makes it worth placing the order if I am getting more than 8 pound of powder and/or 10k in primers. It is easier to load 9 mm with 147 grain bullets and keep them sub-sonic with many powders and still cycle a fully auto gun. Those bullets do cost more to purchase too.

June 23, 2013, 03:50 PM	#9
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Thanks for the info, fellas. I still am in shock. $9 for a box of 50. Ten years ago, when I was into the shooting sports, a box of 9mm LOADED was $9.99 for target loads, and a box of 50 reloads costed about $4 in components. Now I get back into shooting and ammo and powder is hard to find, and twice as expensive. Six months ago, as i was contemplating getting back into this hobby, someone told me that ammo and powder was hard to find. I thought they were joking. Some of these prices to me do not make sense. I was at Caebelas yesterday. New .223 cases were $75 for 100. At that price, I should just buy loaded .223 and reuse the cases. I placed a big order of powder with Midsouth shooters. I like using Midsouth bc they will hold the entire order until its complete and charge a single hazmat fee. Some places like midway USA will ship your order as it comes available, and it might result in several hazmat charges. Thanks for the advice about Pwder Valley. I'll look into it.

June 23, 2013, 03:58 PM	#10
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Mississippi Dave, Will 115 grain 9mm cycle a full auto? That's all I could find, and my reloads currently all use 115 grain. I can't test them yet because I am still waiting on my BATFE stamps.

June 23, 2013, 04:09 PM	#11
velillen Member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 93	115 should work just fine in an unsuppressed mp5. ive shot one on full auto before with 115gr ammo. But it was a stores so could have had a lighter spring or something too as far as i know. Suppressed im not sure. I know my sig p226 wont cycle with 115 when suppressed but i dont know on with suppressed mp5 type

June 23, 2013, 08:49 PM	#13
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	I normally load more for accuracy. While you are working up a load for your gun you can probably look more for when it cycle properly. Most of the time you are going to have the bullet going over 1000 fps with a 115 grain bullet to cycle it properly. A heavier bullet will have more energy to move the slide properly without going super sonic. You will find the suppressor will work better when you are shooting sub sonic ammo. Yes, you can shoot higher velocity ammo but you are going to have a lot more noise when you do. It is kind of hard to suppress the noise of breaking the sound barrier. The lightest bullet I can think of that will cycle the gun reliably and still be sub sonic is a 124 grain bullet. Most people do prefer 147 grain bullets. Even loaded at or near the top end they will still be sub sonic.

June 23, 2013, 11:02 PM	#14
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	I see your point. I'm looking at velocities, and you are right. 115 grain to reliably cycle the action and keep subsonic is nearly impossible. Very interesting. Thanks for the info. I learned something new today.

June 24, 2013, 01:50 AM	#15
wet Member Join Date: October 2, 2011 Location: ID. Posts: 89	machineguntony, try powerbond

June 24, 2013, 10:20 AM	#16
velillen Member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 93	I'm like Dave, I load for accuracy and not to make the gun just function. My load for 115 is accurate and great but won't cycle. My load for 147 is also very accurate and cycles with the suppressor. So I simply use 115 when shooting unsuppressed and 147 when suppressed. I actually often swap barrels as well since I have a threaded and unthreaded barrel. As for bullets...I can still find played bullets for 50-60 per 500. Fmj...no clue since I don't load those. Lead can be found slighly cheaper as well. The key is to order in bulk. The more you order the cheaper it gets

June 24, 2013, 08:03 PM	#17
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	I would be horrified also if 50 rounds of my 9mm was $9.00. I feel $6.00 to $6.50 is bad enough. The key is - Buy in bulk. The key to buying in bulk is watching major online supplier web sites for the products you want.

June 25, 2013, 03:13 AM	#18
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	I'm trying to buy in bulk. I must bought 10,000 .224 projectiles from midsouthshooters. 10,000 costed about $1100, after shipping. Not too bad. The reason my reloads were so expensive is because I bought the last 9mm bullets at cabelas. I didn't have a selection, I must bought my only overpriced option. Im horrified too. $9 a box of 50 reloads! But it's better than paying $17 a box for new ammo.