The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - CCW on the Streets

Baba Louie · March 20, 2006, 04:54 PM

Use of lethal force is justified ONLY when lethal force is being used (or is about to be used) against you.

Scenario 1: (let me offer this first... I no longer hang out in bars, thus eliminating one possible area of befuddled angst) Retreat while telling him to stop, endure the verbal assault, walk away, etc. Watch his hands, his eyes. But leave when possible.

Scenario 2: retreat all the while telling him to stop. I know that one man can kill another with fist/feet, but no lethal force has yet been used... maybe. How big is he? How young? How strong? Is he stoned or on drugs? Can I (age 51, bad back) still retreat and resist the onslaught?
This may sound stupid or wimpy to some, but if I'm carrying and have to endure some embarrassing bloody nose or rude language in order to get back home (relatively) safe and sound, so be it.

Scenario 3: A gang... this changes things drastically. Something about a difference in force. Not too many 51 yr. old men with bad backs hang out in gangs and surround or cut off your retreat for a friendly chat. I cannot retreat? They are advancing issuing threats? Hmmm. Let me think.

In our CCW class regarding lethal force (LF) we were taught, BG must have Ability (A) to use LF, Opportunity (O) to use LF and must be placing me (or mine) in Jeopardy (J) though his use or imminent use of LF. If A, O & J are present and I cannot retreat, it's going to get real nasty, real quick. At that point, I'm not going to be thinking about the DA's charity in determining if it is justifiable. I'm going to defend myself.

In each scenario, I AM going to notify the police RFN about the person(s) who assaulted me. If they'll do that to me, they'll do it to anyone and might need to discuss their behavior with an LEO as they might be breaking a law or two.

YMMV

March 20, 2006, 04:54 PM	#5
Baba Louie Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2001 Posts: 1,552	Use of lethal force is justified ONLY when lethal force is being used (or is about to be used) against you. Scenario 1: (let me offer this first... I no longer hang out in bars, thus eliminating one possible area of befuddled angst) Retreat while telling him to stop, endure the verbal assault, walk away, etc. Watch his hands, his eyes. But leave when possible. Scenario 2: retreat all the while telling him to stop. I know that one man can kill another with fist/feet, but no lethal force has yet been used... maybe. How big is he? How young? How strong? Is he stoned or on drugs? Can I (age 51, bad back) still retreat and resist the onslaught? This may sound stupid or wimpy to some, but if I'm carrying and have to endure some embarrassing bloody nose or rude language in order to get back home (relatively) safe and sound, so be it. Scenario 3: A gang... this changes things drastically. Something about a difference in force. Not too many 51 yr. old men with bad backs hang out in gangs and surround or cut off your retreat for a friendly chat. I cannot retreat? They are advancing issuing threats? Hmmm. Let me think. In our CCW class regarding lethal force (LF) we were taught, BG must have Ability (A) to use LF, Opportunity (O) to use LF and must be placing me (or mine) in Jeopardy (J) though his use or imminent use of LF. If A, O & J are present and I cannot retreat, it's going to get real nasty, real quick. At that point, I'm not going to be thinking about the DA's charity in determining if it is justifiable. I'm going to defend myself. In each scenario, I AM going to notify the police RFN about the person(s) who assaulted me. If they'll do that to me, they'll do it to anyone and might need to discuss their behavior with an LEO as they might be breaking a law or two. YMMV __________________ A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington, January 8, 1790, First State of the Union Address