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boing · June 10, 1999, 05:22 AM

No, I don't hunt. You see, I like animals. I'm not an 'activist' or anything, but I knowingly succumb to my emotional reaction to the thought of an animal being shot when it's just trying to live it's little life in the woods.

To a certain extent, well OK, a large extent, I feel it's a pretty arrogant position to say "If I can kill it,and it's fun to kill it, then it's okay to kill it." I say (try to say, anyway), live and let live, and respect the rights of other creatures to live.

Some people at work like to torture spiders and such, pulling the legs off, and torching them with lighters, and I've 'made a scene' more than once, forcibly stopping such things when I witness them, and freeing the bugs from the tyrany of their supposed "masters"! Some of my co-workers call me The Spider Lord, and think I'm quite ridiculous. They are, of course, quite wrong.

My dad bow hunted deer for a few years when I was young, but never bagged anything. I think it was just a coping mechanism after two and a half tours in Vietnam. He soon turned into more of a naturalist/conservationist, choosing to experience nature in a low-impact, observational way, and that's what I learned from him. Most people probably hunt because that's what they learned from their families.

Now, when I say hunting here, I mean recreational hunting, not subsistence hunting or population/pest control.

Hunting to put food on the table is pure Natural Order, whether you can live on just veggies or not. Killing to survive is really what nature is all about, and nature has done a pretty good job of taking care of the world, and makes for a pretty good model of how to live.

In fact, I do eat meat! I tried the vegetarian thing at the behest of my wife and my brother, but it just didn't take. We never have meat in the house, and I don't miss it when I'm at home, but eating out, especially in the cafeteria at work, is a real vegetarian challenge.

To be sure, the animals-into-food industry is rife with horror stories, and there certainly are humane, but still cost effective ways to kill a food animal (I like the guillotine approach, myself

). But then again, you ever see lion take down a zebra on National Geographic? Or a boa constrictor suffocate...whatever it is boa constrictors suffocate? Not too pleasant, but that's the way survival is.

Am I a hypocrite? Have I sacrificed my warm-and-fuzzy principles just to have some bacon on my biscuit? I suppose so, and you can laugh if want, but it actually kinda bothers me.

Population/pest control is another one. Nature controls populations by killin' 'em off when they get too uppity: "Thou shalt not upset the natural balance of things, upon penalty of death, and plenty of it!" Seems to work.

I suppose here I should modify my position. I do hunt a few things. I have a lot of dogs, and so lots of fleas and some ticks that need to be dispatched. But these are things that actively seek me and my loved ones (animals) out in order to rob us of our vital fluids and infect us with disease! The survival/pest control clause applies. Likewise for mosquitoes, those little bastards.

In my experience, recreational hunters hunt, essentially, because they like to go out into the woods and kill animals. It's just like the camping/hiking stuff I did with my dad, except they like the killing of animals part. Few hunters I've come across seem to say "Those poor deer are gonna starve and have a really bad time this winter. Better go out and thin the herd for the greater benefit of the species as a whole."

But recreational hunting is a huge part of managed wildlife care, regardless of the motivations of any given hunter, and it's successful. Admittedly, since I've never hunted, I know little of the specifics of hunting in a managed care context, so it's up to you folks to tell me all about it.

There are seasons for hunting different game, and bag limits. How long are seasons for various animals and what are typical limits? Who decides the seasons/limits? Based on what?

I read in Jeff Cooper's Commentaries where he said something about an astronomical increase in the deer population (I think) in Connecticut (I think), and attributed it to hunting-as-managed-care. Does anybody know the specifics of this? Give me specific examples of hunting leading to healthier wildlife populations. There must be a ton of examples, of course, I've just not heard of them.

Give me all you've got on the pros of hunting.

One thing I've learned since I became interested in guns and read a thing or two about hunting is the strong ethic of Sportsmanship. That an ethical hunter only takes a shot he's sure he can make. Crippling is a no-no, and crass, to boot.

I read a blurb in a gun magazine about old timey muzzleloader hunting. The author went on about the self induced handicap of it, and the enjoyment of a challenging three day hunt with no game taken because he didn't get a sure shot. I've heard hunter aquaintances of mine talk about passing up shots because they weren't confident about getting clean kills. And Mr. Cooper has written several times about dry-firing on game, just for the thrill of the getting the shot.

I am fighting my ignorance.

In case you couldn't figure it out, I'm sorta conflicted on this issue. I'm opinionated, but my mind isn't closed. I have a lot of respect for the people on this board, hunters or not, and I don't mean any personal offense by any comments I've made here. But this thing has been nagging at me for a long time, and I had to get it out, so I apologize if it's kinda cathartic.

Whew!

-boing

[This message has been edited by boing (edited June 10, 1999).]

June 10, 1999, 05:22 AM	#1
boing Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1998 Location: WNC Posts: 1,072	No, I don't hunt. You see, I like animals. I'm not an 'activist' or anything, but I knowingly succumb to my emotional reaction to the thought of an animal being shot when it's just trying to live it's little life in the woods. To a certain extent, well OK, a large extent, I feel it's a pretty arrogant position to say "If I can kill it,and it's fun to kill it, then it's okay to kill it." I say (try to say, anyway), live and let live, and respect the rights of other creatures to live. Some people at work like to torture spiders and such, pulling the legs off, and torching them with lighters, and I've 'made a scene' more than once, forcibly stopping such things when I witness them, and freeing the bugs from the tyrany of their supposed "masters"! Some of my co-workers call me The Spider Lord, and think I'm quite ridiculous. They are, of course, quite wrong. My dad bow hunted deer for a few years when I was young, but never bagged anything. I think it was just a coping mechanism after two and a half tours in Vietnam. He soon turned into more of a naturalist/conservationist, choosing to experience nature in a low-impact, observational way, and that's what I learned from him. Most people probably hunt because that's what they learned from their families. Now, when I say hunting here, I mean recreational hunting, not subsistence hunting or population/pest control. Hunting to put food on the table is pure Natural Order, whether you can live on just veggies or not. Killing to survive is really what nature is all about, and nature has done a pretty good job of taking care of the world, and makes for a pretty good model of how to live. In fact, I do eat meat! I tried the vegetarian thing at the behest of my wife and my brother, but it just didn't take. We never have meat in the house, and I don't miss it when I'm at home, but eating out, especially in the cafeteria at work, is a real vegetarian challenge. To be sure, the animals-into-food industry is rife with horror stories, and there certainly are humane, but still cost effective ways to kill a food animal (I like the guillotine approach, myself ). But then again, you ever see lion take down a zebra on National Geographic? Or a boa constrictor suffocate...whatever it is boa constrictors suffocate? Not too pleasant, but that's the way survival is. Am I a hypocrite? Have I sacrificed my warm-and-fuzzy principles just to have some bacon on my biscuit? I suppose so, and you can laugh if want, but it actually kinda bothers me. Population/pest control is another one. Nature controls populations by killin' 'em off when they get too uppity: "Thou shalt not upset the natural balance of things, upon penalty of death, and plenty of it!" Seems to work. I suppose here I should modify my position. I do hunt a few things. I have a lot of dogs, and so lots of fleas and some ticks that need to be dispatched. But these are things that actively seek me and my loved ones (animals) out in order to rob us of our vital fluids and infect us with disease! The survival/pest control clause applies. Likewise for mosquitoes, those little bastards. In my experience, recreational hunters hunt, essentially, because they like to go out into the woods and kill animals. It's just like the camping/hiking stuff I did with my dad, except they like the killing of animals part. Few hunters I've come across seem to say "Those poor deer are gonna starve and have a really bad time this winter. Better go out and thin the herd for the greater benefit of the species as a whole." But recreational hunting is a huge part of managed wildlife care, regardless of the motivations of any given hunter, and it's successful. Admittedly, since I've never hunted, I know little of the specifics of hunting in a managed care context, so it's up to you folks to tell me all about it. There are seasons for hunting different game, and bag limits. How long are seasons for various animals and what are typical limits? Who decides the seasons/limits? Based on what? I read in Jeff Cooper's Commentaries where he said something about an astronomical increase in the deer population (I think) in Connecticut (I think), and attributed it to hunting-as-managed-care. Does anybody know the specifics of this? Give me specific examples of hunting leading to healthier wildlife populations. There must be a ton of examples, of course, I've just not heard of them. Give me all you've got on the pros of hunting. One thing I've learned since I became interested in guns and read a thing or two about hunting is the strong ethic of Sportsmanship. That an ethical hunter only takes a shot he's sure he can make. Crippling is a no-no, and crass, to boot. I read a blurb in a gun magazine about old timey muzzleloader hunting. The author went on about the self induced handicap of it, and the enjoyment of a challenging three day hunt with no game taken because he didn't get a sure shot. I've heard hunter aquaintances of mine talk about passing up shots because they weren't confident about getting clean kills. And Mr. Cooper has written several times about dry-firing on game, just for the thrill of the getting the shot. I am fighting my ignorance. In case you couldn't figure it out, I'm sorta conflicted on this issue. I'm opinionated, but my mind isn't closed. I have a lot of respect for the people on this board, hunters or not, and I don't mean any personal offense by any comments I've made here. But this thing has been nagging at me for a long time, and I had to get it out, so I apologize if it's kinda cathartic. Whew! -boing [This message has been edited by boing (edited June 10, 1999).]