[RBid]

ScotchMan,

I think we're missing each other a bit. I don't disagree that software > hardware. In fact, I agree emphatically. I got the impression from your first post that you were basically saying, "you either stop them instantly, or they have a few minutes to do what they want", which would imply that psychological stops weren't considered, and "don't worry at all about round selection, worry only about training". Often when people ask hardware questions on this hardware subforum (as opposed to the Training type subforums), people start to give responses that indicate that they read hardware questions as, "Hi. I don't believe in training. Instead, I seek a magic bullet/firearm to do everything for me."

If I misread where you were coming from, my bad. I'm generally a smart guy, but I am prone to moments of potato.


57K,

Sir, please TURN OFF the lectures on Fackler, Roberts, etc. They are completely irrelevant with regard to anything that I have said.

AGAIN:
"Roberts... [and others]... have commented that [some of these rounds] recovered from real world incidents look like they came from promotional material."

Nothing about Roberts' theories, Fackler's work, etc. Nothing.


Here's a story that didn't come from a dentist, a physicist, a physician, or a pizza delivery guy:

An officer I know related a specific incident to me. In a nutshell, he was surprised by a shooter who saw the uniform, and assumed he was about to be arrested. There was no warning.

The officer was caught flat-footed, with no available cover or concealment. In the moment, he planted his feet, drew, and fired a few rounds. After seeing no indication that he was hitting, he remembered to get on his front sight, which he had neglected to do with his first shots. Moments later, the shooter dropped his weapon, turned, and began trying to run away. He made it a couple of blocks, and sat down on the sidewalk. He was still alive when responders showed up.

It was later determined that the officer fired 7 times, hitting 4 times. He believes that he missed his first 3, hit on his last 4, but recognizes that he may have landed an earlier hit.

The shooter did not die.

No theory there. No Fackler, no Roberts, no IWBA, no ballistic gel.

He did not hit the CNS. Blood loss was a factor. The event ended with a psychological stop. Had the responders not done good work, the shooter would likely have died from his wounds, as a result of blood loss.

Some of those remarks may sound like they "came from the IWBA playbook", but they actually came from the real world. I make comments like, "missed ____, but hit", because that stuff happens.