[Pond, James Pond]

MTT TL Wrote:It is not about guns.

Well, the very title of this thread proclaims a link that is not there. In the past I have seen threads closed for the same lack of gun related content...

BGutzman wrote: I have done hours of research concerning the UK and gun control and yes on the basis of the research I have conducted it is my informed opinion that as a nation there is a willful and purposeful intent by the legislative and judicial system to suppress all guns to the extreme.

It is my guess that your research was probably biased in favour of your own views.
Actively looking up stuff that is about gun suppression will give you an informed opinion, sure, but only informed on one side of the arguement.

Still I may be wrong and if you tell me you took steps to make your research as even handed and objective as possible, looking at all the reasons for and against gun ownership, setting aside your own personal views and focusing only on the UK, then I'll believe you...

Besides, that is a moot point: you'll never find any post of mine saying that they have the right attitude to gun ownership in the UK....

Freedom requires that one must be able to defend ones self ....

....in the UK you dont have anything approaching a right to self defense or arms capable of providing that defense for the average citizen. A people incapable of defending themselves are by my definition and many others not free....

All these seem to be your definition of freedom.
I could argue that the UK is more free because we can actually buy a drink from a shop without having to show id, despite being old and grey etc... We can go on demos without getting pepper sprayed (although the Met police have been sailing close to the wind there, with kettling techniques). In the UK, people can marry who they like, even if they are the same gender. I don't believe all States do in the USA. All valid examples of freedom, IMHO.

Either way, its not all about putting holes in people, or being allowed to.

As for the rights to self defence: they do exist. The law aims to limit excessive force. Killing someone for being on your property uninvited would be viewed as excessive: in that respect, I agree. Yet in the US, that seems to be OK, based on some comments I've read.
Similarly, despite having the right to carry for self defence, if I shot and killed an knife-yeilding assailant here in Estonia, I'd probably be sent down: or come very close.
Yet, Estonia is a gun-friendly, free country; according to your definition.

As a counter, stand alone, equally unrepresentative example: a few months ago, a guy had two blokes break into his home: he stabbed one with a kitchen knife. I believe the BG died: the home owner was not prosecuted.

Also absolutely our system of justice is completely broken along with our legislative and executive system.... Dont think so, go read the unconstitutional Patriot act and get back to me on an appropriate website.

Not sure what you're trying to say here.... sorry...

Mleake wrote: Pond, what about the woman whose shotgun was confiscated after she had a verbal altercation with gypsies who were cutting her trees, illegally.

I don't know about that case, but once more you're judging based on one article: you can't look through the key hole and expect to appreciate the room. Why do you think such seemingly ludricrous actions by the police get into the papers? Because they are ludricrous and out of the ordinary. Ordinary don't sell papers...

Do they report on all altercations and court hearings? No. It only sells if it catches peoples attention or massages their prejudices: like, say, any headline that might talk about anti gun actions

Let's make something clear:
I don't claim that the UK is perfect, by any means. Far from it: that is why I moved.
I get incensed when I read about dum-@*se rulings like that and yes, the UK gun laws are over restrictive and a product of ill-thought out legislation designed to appease the masses, after very extreme and isolated events. Making in depth psych evaluations of gun owners compulsory would have been better and more effective, but banning was cheaper.... and got more headlines.

However, it urks me when members decide that one article, that didn't even have anything to do with guns is enough to get on a high horse and suggest that their country has nothing to learn but everything to teach.
And that is the impression it gives....

The only person so far that has, I think, the grounds to be truly critical of the UK system is Aarond, given that he has experienced it first hand.
Has everyone else on this thread been to the UK, or better still lived there? If not, well...

It is ironic however that in the UNODC survey of 2010, that both the gun friendly states of Estonia and United States had higher rates of Intentional Homicide than the UK...

Perhaps we respectively need self defence more than the UK do...
My 2p