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RobRPM2222 · July 3, 2002, 03:15 AM

blood chokes (strangles) are an efficent, quick way to make someone pass out quickly. They can be done from a standing position (rear-naked/mata leo or side-arm choke, or if your opponent has heavier clothing, not t-shirts, you can try some gi chokes) or on the ground.

Problems- while nobody dies of blood chokes in the competitions that use them frequently (UFC/MMA, BJJ, submission grappling, Judo), several people have died from use of blood chokes in the real world, mainly when done by cops.

Now, most cops are VERY poorly trained in blood chokes in comparison to most competition people, if they are trained at all (many departments have banned the technique. ) They tend to end up using too much force on a finesse technique, and frequently cause severe damage to the windpipe, which produces more serious damage than a well-executed blood choke does. In additions, cops frequently "pile on" to arrestees, causing damage to the abdomen area that can also affect breathing. This can be a double whammy.

however, there are more factors that weigh in that affect someone who is more skilled in the use of chokes. Many of the people that end up dead from a policeman's choke were also on drugs or alchohol at the time. Since many people who will attack you on the street will also be on drugs, this is something to consider.

blood chokes, if held on long enough, are lethal. Most well-trained people, even in adrenalized situtations, will let go long before the point where permanent damage occurs. However, if you hold a choke for more than around 30 sec after a person goes unconcious, you are risking permanent brain damage to that person although it usually takes longer for the person to get damaged. holding a blood choke beyond a minute is risking death for the person, although it usually takes up to two minutes or longer for that to occur. note that I am being extremely conservative on the choking times, but you should be too.

the final thing to consider is that in competition martial arts where chokes are taught, there is the option to tap out or verbally submit. On the street, you are going for unconciousness, screw someone tapping on your arm. This may have an effect on lethality as you are not going to release the choke as most people do in the dojo, although plenty of people would rather get choked fully unconcious in the dojo instead of tapping, and none of them have died yet.

chokes are not good in a multiple attacker situation. While a good blood choke is generally faster than a good windpipe choke and can effect unconciousness in a 3-10 second span while not generally having the same risk of causing resperatory failure, it still leaves you at risk in a multiple situation.

I have heard from a doctor that people over 40-45 with bad cholesterol-filled diets or cholestorol problems are also at risk from being choked until unconciousness, as this may dislodge artierial plaque that can have nasty effects on your body, however the doctor was not familar with the body of medical research work done by doctors who also practice judo and have made a medical study of chokes, and these doctors have not mentioned such a situation. I don't know who is right on this one as I am not a doctor- you investigate and make your own decision.

in addition, in most places in the U.S. chokes are considered lethal force techniques. Use them at your own legal risk.

July 3, 2002, 03:15 AM	#7
RobRPM2222 Junior Member Join Date: April 27, 2002 Posts: 11	chokes! blood chokes (strangles) are an efficent, quick way to make someone pass out quickly. They can be done from a standing position (rear-naked/mata leo or side-arm choke, or if your opponent has heavier clothing, not t-shirts, you can try some gi chokes) or on the ground. Problems- while nobody dies of blood chokes in the competitions that use them frequently (UFC/MMA, BJJ, submission grappling, Judo), several people have died from use of blood chokes in the real world, mainly when done by cops. Now, most cops are VERY poorly trained in blood chokes in comparison to most competition people, if they are trained at all (many departments have banned the technique. ) They tend to end up using too much force on a finesse technique, and frequently cause severe damage to the windpipe, which produces more serious damage than a well-executed blood choke does. In additions, cops frequently "pile on" to arrestees, causing damage to the abdomen area that can also affect breathing. This can be a double whammy. however, there are more factors that weigh in that affect someone who is more skilled in the use of chokes. Many of the people that end up dead from a policeman's choke were also on drugs or alchohol at the time. Since many people who will attack you on the street will also be on drugs, this is something to consider. blood chokes, if held on long enough, are lethal. Most well-trained people, even in adrenalized situtations, will let go long before the point where permanent damage occurs. However, if you hold a choke for more than around 30 sec after a person goes unconcious, you are risking permanent brain damage to that person although it usually takes longer for the person to get damaged. holding a blood choke beyond a minute is risking death for the person, although it usually takes up to two minutes or longer for that to occur. note that I am being extremely conservative on the choking times, but you should be too. the final thing to consider is that in competition martial arts where chokes are taught, there is the option to tap out or verbally submit. On the street, you are going for unconciousness, screw someone tapping on your arm. This may have an effect on lethality as you are not going to release the choke as most people do in the dojo, although plenty of people would rather get choked fully unconcious in the dojo instead of tapping, and none of them have died yet. chokes are not good in a multiple attacker situation. While a good blood choke is generally faster than a good windpipe choke and can effect unconciousness in a 3-10 second span while not generally having the same risk of causing resperatory failure, it still leaves you at risk in a multiple situation. I have heard from a doctor that people over 40-45 with bad cholesterol-filled diets or cholestorol problems are also at risk from being choked until unconciousness, as this may dislodge artierial plaque that can have nasty effects on your body, however the doctor was not familar with the body of medical research work done by doctors who also practice judo and have made a medical study of chokes, and these doctors have not mentioned such a situation. I don't know who is right on this one as I am not a doctor- you investigate and make your own decision. in addition, in most places in the U.S. chokes are considered lethal force techniques. Use them at your own legal risk. __________________ Jujutsu!