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Harry Humphries · January 19, 1999, 03:58 PM

As usual - some really good input.

Lets take a look at some of the key points of the discussions.

First there is a clear difference between the "Long Gun", standing mount and an appropriately configured CQC shoulder fired weapon, standing mount. The two are definitely mission specific and appropriate - given the conditions of deployment.

• Without delving into the esoteric realm let it suffice to say that the, so called, "Modern Technique" described by HILTON in his kick-off posting is the appropriate "Offhand" or standing position for relatively high powered or heavy recoil shoulder fired weapons being deployed for accurate shot placement at relatively distant targets. Missing of course was the application of sling support which is another topic altogether.

• The H&K method described by HILTON probably found it's roots with the tenor of Mr. Singelton who brought his former 22 SAS experience to Law Enforcement training in the US through H&K's MP-5 qualification program. It continues to be improved and disseminated through the likes of Chris Sheperd, former LASO dep., Gene Zink, former Delta type and a litany of very experienced and qualified special operators most of whom I am honored to call shipmate. This method is designed to afford maximum efficiency in a high speed, danger close, environment where need of speed dictates the need for reasonable, rather than extreme, accuracy. Remember balance of speed, accuracy and power - the essence of the "Modern Technique"?

Without stirring too much controversy I think it can be said that the ideal entry shoulder fired weapon, or primary, should be as short as possible, have auto select (although not an absolute must) and be chambered in a controllable caliber so as to facilitate accuracy in multiple shot application. It is important to keep lethality and control balanced in this decision.

Again without too much controversy, one can safely say that the entry weapon will be deployed while moving into and through the unknown, often through small portals and / or small rooms, stairs, halls etc. where the operators ability to rapidly assimilate the environment is a must.

Given the above, the CQC shooting stance should be open, at least in modified weaver, so as to enable the shooter to get as much peripheral view of the upcoming environment as possible and allow for complete flexibility in turreting the weapon and eyes through 90 degrees on either side of the advancing path. The advancing walk should provide a non-oscillating, steady shooting platform such as Graucho, Fencing Step or SAS (another topic), if retreating the fencing step is a must as the weapon and eyes stay aligned with the threat zone as the lead foot feels the path before the shooters balance is committed to the direction of movement. The toe of the stock should be mounted. higher and more centered than normal offhand so as to avoid bringing the head and eyes down to the sights or worse, not seeing the sights. Both elbows are in tight as the low recoil does not require a shoulder pocket and limb extremities should be avoided at all costs to facilitate confined space passage and deny hand holds to a perpetrator seeking to take the weapon. Once the shooter has left the stack the primary should be carried in low ready with the stock remaining in the mount position. While closing on an unknown area the support arm should come up over the barrel and the stance close to a bladed position offering as much retention potential as possible (also another topic).

Again you all have the idea I'm simply giving you reasons why.

January 19, 1999, 03:58 PM	#9
Harry Humphries Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA Posts: 59	As usual - some really good input. Lets take a look at some of the key points of the discussions. First there is a clear difference between the "Long Gun", standing mount and an appropriately configured CQC shoulder fired weapon, standing mount. The two are definitely mission specific and appropriate - given the conditions of deployment. • Without delving into the esoteric realm let it suffice to say that the, so called, "Modern Technique" described by HILTON in his kick-off posting is the appropriate "Offhand" or standing position for relatively high powered or heavy recoil shoulder fired weapons being deployed for accurate shot placement at relatively distant targets. Missing of course was the application of sling support which is another topic altogether. • The H&K method described by HILTON probably found it's roots with the tenor of Mr. Singelton who brought his former 22 SAS experience to Law Enforcement training in the US through H&K's MP-5 qualification program. It continues to be improved and disseminated through the likes of Chris Sheperd, former LASO dep., Gene Zink, former Delta type and a litany of very experienced and qualified special operators most of whom I am honored to call shipmate. This method is designed to afford maximum efficiency in a high speed, danger close, environment where need of speed dictates the need for reasonable, rather than extreme, accuracy. Remember balance of speed, accuracy and power - the essence of the "Modern Technique"? Without stirring too much controversy I think it can be said that the ideal entry shoulder fired weapon, or primary, should be as short as possible, have auto select (although not an absolute must) and be chambered in a controllable caliber so as to facilitate accuracy in multiple shot application. It is important to keep lethality and control balanced in this decision. Again without too much controversy, one can safely say that the entry weapon will be deployed while moving into and through the unknown, often through small portals and / or small rooms, stairs, halls etc. where the operators ability to rapidly assimilate the environment is a must. Given the above, the CQC shooting stance should be open, at least in modified weaver, so as to enable the shooter to get as much peripheral view of the upcoming environment as possible and allow for complete flexibility in turreting the weapon and eyes through 90 degrees on either side of the advancing path. The advancing walk should provide a non-oscillating, steady shooting platform such as Graucho, Fencing Step or SAS (another topic), if retreating the fencing step is a must as the weapon and eyes stay aligned with the threat zone as the lead foot feels the path before the shooters balance is committed to the direction of movement. The toe of the stock should be mounted. higher and more centered than normal offhand so as to avoid bringing the head and eyes down to the sights or worse, not seeing the sights. Both elbows are in tight as the low recoil does not require a shoulder pocket and limb extremities should be avoided at all costs to facilitate confined space passage and deny hand holds to a perpetrator seeking to take the weapon. Once the shooter has left the stack the primary should be carried in low ready with the stock remaining in the mount position. While closing on an unknown area the support arm should come up over the barrel and the stance close to a bladed position offering as much retention potential as possible (also another topic). Again you all have the idea I'm simply giving you reasons why.