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SansSouci · January 7, 2014, 12:47 AM

MarkCO,

I read and reread your post. I am not sure what to make of it. I think you're trying to convey that OP's .270 will bounce off elk at 400 yards.

Are you conveying that if the guy from Georgia had a larger caliber rifle his bad shooting would have morphed into good shooting?

Here's is what I can write with absolute certainty: if those elk were hit in the their hearts and/or lungs they would have died. Period. End of story. No animal is long for this world sans heart and/or lungs. That is a biological fact. I don't care if it was a .243 Win that destroyed those elk hearts and/or lungs. This is why I am skeptical of your account of elk with thoracic wounds that were -presumptively- later tracked down and killed. If you can put me on reports filed by Colorado DOW officers that killed the elk, I'd appreciate it. Do you know these officers? Or was this hearsay many times over? To me, it lacks credulity. Animals cannot live with destroyed hearts and/or lungs. It just will not happen.

I would much rather see a hunter carrying a rifle that he can shoot rather than a rifle he can't. I learned this when I began hunting: a .243 Win in the boiler room is a whole lot better than an '06 in the guts. The point is a bad shot is a bad shot regardless of cartridge. Here's another bromide I learned many seasons ago: keep an eye on the hunter that owns but one rifle, for he assuredly knows how to use it.

Mark, does caliber make a hunter ethical?

Here's another true story. Before the '12 deer season, I watched a studly dude try to sight in his brand new .300 Win Mag a few days before leaving for Montana. He emptied about a box of cartridges. He had a solid 6" group at a hundred yards, high & left. He told me he couldn't shoot any longer because his shoulder was sore. Because he was using a .300 Win Mag, would you have considered him an ethical hunter?

Here's another fact: I ought to be drawn for a trophy bull elk area this year. I've been applying for over 20 years. This area produces 400+ bulls, and some consider it the best trophy bull unit in the nation. I will hunt with a .270 Win. I know biology. If I put a .270 Win bullet in the right place, an elk is going to die. That is a biological fact. I am not stupid. I will not risk losing a once-in-a-lifetime trophy elk by using an inferior caliber. If you were to put a bullet from a super mag in a poor spot, your animal might die, but you'll probably needle it & won't recover it.

How would you suppose our hunting forefathers managed to kill everything in North America with surplus .303 British, .30-40 Krag, & 7x57 surplus rifles? Were they unethical? What about hunters who had to cope sans super magnums?

Mark, caliber does not make a hunter ethical. Hunting skills -to include-shooting skills- do.

One last point: my personal opinion in that the 7MM Rem Mag is the best long range hunting cartridge ever invented. However, it will not kill any better than a .270 Win. It's all about putting a bullet where it needs to be.

January 7, 2014, 12:47 AM	#26
SansSouci Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2013 Location: Heart of Reagan Country Posts: 479	MarkCO, I read and reread your post. I am not sure what to make of it. I think you're trying to convey that OP's .270 will bounce off elk at 400 yards. Are you conveying that if the guy from Georgia had a larger caliber rifle his bad shooting would have morphed into good shooting? Here's is what I can write with absolute certainty: if those elk were hit in the their hearts and/or lungs they would have died. Period. End of story. No animal is long for this world sans heart and/or lungs. That is a biological fact. I don't care if it was a .243 Win that destroyed those elk hearts and/or lungs. This is why I am skeptical of your account of elk with thoracic wounds that were -presumptively- later tracked down and killed. If you can put me on reports filed by Colorado DOW officers that killed the elk, I'd appreciate it. Do you know these officers? Or was this hearsay many times over? To me, it lacks credulity. Animals cannot live with destroyed hearts and/or lungs. It just will not happen. I would much rather see a hunter carrying a rifle that he can shoot rather than a rifle he can't. I learned this when I began hunting: a .243 Win in the boiler room is a whole lot better than an '06 in the guts. The point is a bad shot is a bad shot regardless of cartridge. Here's another bromide I learned many seasons ago: keep an eye on the hunter that owns but one rifle, for he assuredly knows how to use it. Mark, does caliber make a hunter ethical? Here's another true story. Before the '12 deer season, I watched a studly dude try to sight in his brand new .300 Win Mag a few days before leaving for Montana. He emptied about a box of cartridges. He had a solid 6" group at a hundred yards, high & left. He told me he couldn't shoot any longer because his shoulder was sore. Because he was using a .300 Win Mag, would you have considered him an ethical hunter? Here's another fact: I ought to be drawn for a trophy bull elk area this year. I've been applying for over 20 years. This area produces 400+ bulls, and some consider it the best trophy bull unit in the nation. I will hunt with a .270 Win. I know biology. If I put a .270 Win bullet in the right place, an elk is going to die. That is a biological fact. I am not stupid. I will not risk losing a once-in-a-lifetime trophy elk by using an inferior caliber. If you were to put a bullet from a super mag in a poor spot, your animal might die, but you'll probably needle it & won't recover it. How would you suppose our hunting forefathers managed to kill everything in North America with surplus .303 British, .30-40 Krag, & 7x57 surplus rifles? Were they unethical? What about hunters who had to cope sans super magnums? Mark, caliber does not make a hunter ethical. Hunting skills -to include-shooting skills- do. One last point: my personal opinion in that the 7MM Rem Mag is the best long range hunting cartridge ever invented. However, it will not kill any better than a .270 Win. It's all about putting a bullet where it needs to be.