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Daniel Watters · November 16, 1999, 08:09 AM

You might check out the Sellier & Bellot four-pellet 000 Buck and five-pellet 00 Buck loadings. These are all based on the 3-inch hull.

I have continued an odd personal crusade for improving the .410 as a defensive cartridge. Experimenters have surpassed the pellet count of the S&B loads by one apiece. C. Rodney James wrote an article on six-pellet 00 Buck .410s in _Handloader's Digest, 11th ed_. Furthermore, in _Cartridges of the World, 6th Ed._, Frank C. Barnes mentions playing with five-pellet 000 Buck loads. These were launched with either 16 grains of 4227 or 14.6 grs of 2400 to achieve a muzzle velocity of 1,100 fps. He was getting patterns of ~6 inches at 25 yards.

Playing with ball diameters other than standard buckshot, I have calculated that a 3-inch .410 hull could hold either five 93gr .395" balls or four 104gr .410" balls. (The former is calculated from the length of a six-pellet 00 stack, and the latter from the length of a five-pellet 00 stack.) The .395" ball is available for muzzleloading rifles from sources such as Hornady, while NEI offers a .410" ball mold. Given the straight stack of the pellets, a rifled choke might actually enhance the patterning...shades of the Paradox shotguns!

The .410 would appear to be an ideal size for a high capacity box magazine unlike the 12 gauge. The 10 round magazines for the Saiga 410 appear to be equal in length and definitely thinner than the 5 round magazine for the 12 gauge Saiga 12. Given the similar size envelope of the 3-inch .410, 7.62x54mmR Russian, and the .303 British, a double-stacked .410 magazine might even be feasible (although the straight walled hull would probably proscribe double-position feed lips).

The Russians seem to be sold on the general concept, producing a version of the Saiga 410 equipped with military AK-style furniture: folding stock, pistol grip, et al. (All the nasty bits that prevent importation short of a bayonet lug.)

Franchi played with a cute little full-auto bullpup in .410 during the mid-80s. It used a 15rd magazine and had a cyclic rate of 200 rpm. Unfortunately, that is all that I know of its existence other than a photograph and a tid bit that Franchi was using steel buckshot pellets.

November 16, 1999, 08:09 AM	#14
Daniel Watters Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 644	You might check out the Sellier & Bellot four-pellet 000 Buck and five-pellet 00 Buck loadings. These are all based on the 3-inch hull. I have continued an odd personal crusade for improving the .410 as a defensive cartridge. Experimenters have surpassed the pellet count of the S&B loads by one apiece. C. Rodney James wrote an article on six-pellet 00 Buck .410s in _Handloader's Digest, 11th ed_. Furthermore, in _Cartridges of the World, 6th Ed._, Frank C. Barnes mentions playing with five-pellet 000 Buck loads. These were launched with either 16 grains of 4227 or 14.6 grs of 2400 to achieve a muzzle velocity of 1,100 fps. He was getting patterns of ~6 inches at 25 yards. Playing with ball diameters other than standard buckshot, I have calculated that a 3-inch .410 hull could hold either five 93gr .395" balls or four 104gr .410" balls. (The former is calculated from the length of a six-pellet 00 stack, and the latter from the length of a five-pellet 00 stack.) The .395" ball is available for muzzleloading rifles from sources such as Hornady, while NEI offers a .410" ball mold. Given the straight stack of the pellets, a rifled choke might actually enhance the patterning...shades of the Paradox shotguns! The .410 would appear to be an ideal size for a high capacity box magazine unlike the 12 gauge. The 10 round magazines for the Saiga 410 appear to be equal in length and definitely thinner than the 5 round magazine for the 12 gauge Saiga 12. Given the similar size envelope of the 3-inch .410, 7.62x54mmR Russian, and the .303 British, a double-stacked .410 magazine might even be feasible (although the straight walled hull would probably proscribe double-position feed lips). The Russians seem to be sold on the general concept, producing a version of the Saiga 410 equipped with military AK-style furniture: folding stock, pistol grip, et al. (All the nasty bits that prevent importation short of a bayonet lug.) Franchi played with a cute little full-auto bullpup in .410 during the mid-80s. It used a 15rd magazine and had a cyclic rate of 200 rpm. Unfortunately, that is all that I know of its existence other than a photograph and a tid bit that Franchi was using steel buckshot pellets.