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Old June 24, 2009, 04:08 AM   #171
Ricky B
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 2002
Posts: 251
BikerRN gets my vote for the most rational solution. Post #81.

I agree with it so I might be biased. But in terms of "rational," you have to agree that it's free from emotion, and many of the proposed solutions were emotional, not rational.

For example, a thief breaks into your car, the solution is not to stink it up. Isn't that a tad counter-productive? Haven't you just made a bad situation worse? Your car is being broken into and now you make it undriveable (for at least a period of time). Wouldn't people be asking you "What were you thinking?"

In terms of legalities, it's quite clear that the thief has you dead to rights, so to speak. You don't like it? Persuade your legislature to change the rules. This is a democracy, and the majority makes the rules. If you don't like that, so sorry.

If you don't want to follow BikerRN's advice, and if you don't want to crap up your car, the way I see it, you have limited choices:

1. Let's get this one out of the way right up front. Just shoot the guy a soon as he gets out of the car. Lie like hell and testify that he was about to attack you and you feared for your life. If you do a good enough job, and the cops don't investigate adequately to uncover any discrepancies in your story, not only will you not be charged but you will also beat the thief at his own game--you become the bigger criminal.

2. Use some kind of force that the thief finds unpleasant but (a) doesn't damage your car further and (b) is not considered, in the light of 20-20 hindsight, to have been an unreasonable application of force. Zip ties around the ankles has some appeal. Of course, this can be a bit tricky, what with having to use two hands for the zip ties, and of course, having to come closer to the thief, who so far isn't being cooperative. And you have to hope he doesn't have a look-out for the cops who comes to his aid. Or the thief might be as tough as hogdogs or you might be just as much a candy-ass as I am.

One poster said: "Just for idle speculation, though, I wonder what the scummie's reaction would be if you doused him with flamable liquid, stepped back and let him hear the 'ker-clink' of snapping your Zippo open." Technically that could be a battery (in most states) and possibly a terroristic threat, which in CA can be treated as a felony. But amusing to contemplate.

OTOH, a stun gun while he's in the car might be workable. And pepper spray outside the car is also worthy of consideration. (For you, that is. For me, I'll be dialing, whiling away the time (Mossberg 500 by my side), and filing with the insurance company.) I might also be filing a complaint with the PD about the slow response to a crime in progress.

3. Effect a citizen's arrest using reasonable force. Get it right, you just saved your deductible and you're a hero! If necessary to defend yourself, you might be privileged to use deadly force to protect yourself while effecting the arrest. Keep in mind that this is not a variant of 1 above. This option assumes that you legitimately try to restrain him physically and he in fact starts to get the upper hand and you honestly and reasonably believe that you are in danger of being killed or suffering great bodily injury. For me, this is way too complicated to analyze on the spot. Get it wrong and you've just bought into a jackpot. From hero to zero in the time it takes to pull a trigger.

Oh, and just to make it a bit more tricky, state laws can vary on this point. Unlike peace officers, in most states, citizens have immunity for a wrongful arrest, and if you use unreasonable force, you might face criminal charges for battery. Doing so while armed with a handgun in CA, even though it is not used in the offense, can be a big, fat sentence enhancement. You could end up doing way more time than the thief.

4. Just physically harm the guy as you see fit. Now re-read the last sentence of 3 above.

5. As one poster note, what about the thief's car? He had to get there someway. If it's parked nearby, you could get the license plate number.

For the most imaginative solution, I like Trooper Tyree's throw-down gun plan.

My small contribution to the solution would be to train my wife to say something different. Something like: "Honey, the police are on their way and they'll be here in a few minutes. I told them that he was kicking some cop's ass for pulling him over."

It might not be legal for her to misreport, but there's nothing illegal about her making the thief think she did so.

Last edited by Ricky B; June 24, 2009 at 04:10 AM. Reason: Add reference to post # for BikerRN's post
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