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Byron · March 25, 2001, 01:30 AM

Izzy: There are lots of subgun competitions, and they take a variety of forms, ranging from bowling pin shoots to jungle walks, and everything in between. In some of these, LE's and civilians compete against each other, and courses usually involve no-shoots that put a premium on accurate fire. If you go to Knob Creek next month, you will see some of the best. I suggest you look for reports of some of these competitions in past and future issues of Small Arms Review. As to "good timers", I'm not sure what that means, but I think everyone has a good time competing in these events.

No one said closed bolt guns were "so much worse than the cheaper open bolt". Relax.

I'm sorry that you had such difficulty shooting your Uzi with any accuracy, but your assertion that only one in a thousand shooters can make good use of an open-bolt submachine gun past 50 yards is nonsense. Perhaps you needed more and better training with your weapon, or maybe it wasn't sighted in properly. I own two Uzi's and find them to be a pretty accurate gun; I certainly don't have any trouble hitting a paper plate at 50 yards, nor does anyone else I shoot with. At least a half-dozen other open-bolt subguns are more accurate yet. Does a closed-bolt subgun offer a general accuracy advantage due to its mode of fire? Yes, but it isn't that much more accurate, and whether it makes much difference depends on the application.

Open-bolt submachine guns have largely disappeared from military applications, but not because they were replaced by closed-bolt submachine guns. Rather, submachine guns of all kinds have been replaced by compact assault rifles that fire much more potent cartridges than any submachine gun. If your targets will be engaged at any significant distance, then no submachine gun should be your weapon of choice. Given a full range of alternatives of what to carry into battle, who in his right mind would choose to carry a submachine gun?

The few submachine guns still in production are primarily civilian police weapons. For that sort of application, where a relatively low-powered, non-penetrating, easily noise-suppressed round is usually appropriate, an MP5 or similar is a good choice. Which is what I said in my post.

March 25, 2001, 01:30 AM	#6
Byron Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: Sandia Park, NM Posts: 270	Izzy: There are lots of subgun competitions, and they take a variety of forms, ranging from bowling pin shoots to jungle walks, and everything in between. In some of these, LE's and civilians compete against each other, and courses usually involve no-shoots that put a premium on accurate fire. If you go to Knob Creek next month, you will see some of the best. I suggest you look for reports of some of these competitions in past and future issues of Small Arms Review. As to "good timers", I'm not sure what that means, but I think everyone has a good time competing in these events. No one said closed bolt guns were "so much worse than the cheaper open bolt". Relax. I'm sorry that you had such difficulty shooting your Uzi with any accuracy, but your assertion that only one in a thousand shooters can make good use of an open-bolt submachine gun past 50 yards is nonsense. Perhaps you needed more and better training with your weapon, or maybe it wasn't sighted in properly. I own two Uzi's and find them to be a pretty accurate gun; I certainly don't have any trouble hitting a paper plate at 50 yards, nor does anyone else I shoot with. At least a half-dozen other open-bolt subguns are more accurate yet. Does a closed-bolt subgun offer a general accuracy advantage due to its mode of fire? Yes, but it isn't that much more accurate, and whether it makes much difference depends on the application. Open-bolt submachine guns have largely disappeared from military applications, but not because they were replaced by closed-bolt submachine guns. Rather, submachine guns of all kinds have been replaced by compact assault rifles that fire much more potent cartridges than any submachine gun. If your targets will be engaged at any significant distance, then no submachine gun should be your weapon of choice. Given a full range of alternatives of what to carry into battle, who in his right mind would choose to carry a submachine gun? The few submachine guns still in production are primarily civilian police weapons. For that sort of application, where a relatively low-powered, non-penetrating, easily noise-suppressed round is usually appropriate, an MP5 or similar is a good choice. Which is what I said in my post.