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SL1 · February 17, 2013, 12:21 PM

Buck,

You seem to be wanting to argue about something without actually listening to yourself. As YOU wrote in your last post, Berry's Bullets (which wants to sell bullets without going to the expense of pressure-testing loads with its bullets and publishing a manual) expressly said "Do not exceed mid-range loads" in data published for other bullets. That, and the velocity limits placed on their bullets tends to keep things on the safe side, especially when they are saying that you must use the same weight AND PROFILE bullet for selecting the load data.

But, the OP's question was not whether you can start low enough to make your starting loads safe when you substitute a bullet. The question was whether the DATA is applicable to other bullets. That includes MAX loads. The point of my advice TO A NEW RELOADER was that the XTP data is NOT applicable to ALL 115 grain FMJ bullets in the 9mm Luger cartridge. I think my examples prove that beyond any doubt.

What you and some others seem to want to tell people is that they can safely work-up a load with any selection of components by starting with low charges and "looking for pressure signs." That WAS advice often printed in early manuals, bugt it had proven to be overly optimistic and applied way to broadly. While pressure signs are abundant and reasonably reliable in high-pressure rifle cartridges in modern, high-strength guns, there are NONE available for old black-powder cartridges like the .45 Colt when chambered in weaker guns like the Colt Single Action Army.

In mid-pressure cartridges like the 9mm Luger, there are a few high pressure indications, but none of them are reliable enough to really know when you have crossed the SAAMI pressure limit. Recoil and case ejection are the best indicators, for an autoloader. But recoil is notoriously subjective, and case ejection can be the same for loads with greatly different PEAK pressures because it depends more on the integral of pressure over time as the bullet is being pushed down the barrel. That integral can be the same for a lot of different pressure curves with much different peak pressures.

So, let's all be more careful about how cavalier we are with our advice to new reloaders.

And, please recognize that I did not tell him to never substitute a bullet. I even told him HOW to do it with some degree of understanding about how to compensate for differences in the bullets.

So, this really seems to be an argument over whether it is worth making just a slight bit of effort to be safe when substituting bullets. Why are you and Adamantium trying to argue against that?

SL1

February 17, 2013, 12:21 PM	#18
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Buck, You seem to be wanting to argue about something without actually listening to yourself. As YOU wrote in your last post, Berry's Bullets (which wants to sell bullets without going to the expense of pressure-testing loads with its bullets and publishing a manual) expressly said "Do not exceed mid-range loads" in data published for other bullets. That, and the velocity limits placed on their bullets tends to keep things on the safe side, especially when they are saying that you must use the same weight AND PROFILE bullet for selecting the load data. But, the OP's question was not whether you can start low enough to make your starting loads safe when you substitute a bullet. The question was whether the DATA is applicable to other bullets. That includes MAX loads. The point of my advice TO A NEW RELOADER was that the XTP data is NOT applicable to ALL 115 grain FMJ bullets in the 9mm Luger cartridge. I think my examples prove that beyond any doubt. What you and some others seem to want to tell people is that they can safely work-up a load with any selection of components by starting with low charges and "looking for pressure signs." That WAS advice often printed in early manuals, bugt it had proven to be overly optimistic and applied way to broadly. While pressure signs are abundant and reasonably reliable in high-pressure rifle cartridges in modern, high-strength guns, there are NONE available for old black-powder cartridges like the .45 Colt when chambered in weaker guns like the Colt Single Action Army. In mid-pressure cartridges like the 9mm Luger, there are a few high pressure indications, but none of them are reliable enough to really know when you have crossed the SAAMI pressure limit. Recoil and case ejection are the best indicators, for an autoloader. But recoil is notoriously subjective, and case ejection can be the same for loads with greatly different PEAK pressures because it depends more on the integral of pressure over time as the bullet is being pushed down the barrel. That integral can be the same for a lot of different pressure curves with much different peak pressures. So, let's all be more careful about how cavalier we are with our advice to new reloaders. And, please recognize that I did not tell him to never substitute a bullet. I even told him HOW to do it with some degree of understanding about how to compensate for differences in the bullets. So, this really seems to be an argument over whether it is worth making just a slight bit of effort to be safe when substituting bullets. Why are you and Adamantium trying to argue against that? SL1