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F. Guffey · February 22, 2013, 12:31 PM

Yesterday, 12:32 PM #20
Wyoredman
Senior Member

Join Date: September 6, 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 884 Guffey,

Here is how I used my Hornady "comparator":

Measured unfired, new factory case in the "comparator" installed on my caliper.

Measured fired case the same way. Fired case is 0.003" longer to shoulder datum than it was before firing.

Screwed FL die into press until it touched fired case, then began adjusting die down and measuring case length to shoulder datum with "comparator" until the case was 0.002" shorter. Set lock ring on die at this point.

My question to you, as you seem to know these things, is how do I make a "chamber length gage"? Please be specific so as I can benefit from your knowledge. If I lived nearby, I would bring the rifle to you and you could explain it to me, but no such luck.

Also, this still hasn't answered my original question about why this individual rifle is doing this to my brass! Are you suggesting that my chamber is oversized? I am a simple man and need simple, straight forward answers. Thanks.
__________________
Go Pokes!
Go Rams!

Wyoredman, Thank you, “My question to you, as you seem to know these things, is how do I make a "chamber length gage"? Please be specific so as I can benefit from your knowledge. If I lived nearby, I would bring the rifle to you and you could explain it to me, but no such luck” Long before I had barrels chambered in 35 Whelen and or 338/06 I had the dies. Long before I had store bought cases like 8mm57, 7mm57, 7.7 Japanese, 6.5 257 Roberts etc. I had 30/06 cases and invested in forming dies. Today that is an expensive alternative, I could justify the expense because I paid .01 cent each for 30/06 cases, 20 cases for $1.00, and the more expensive pull down unfired cases from Pat’s for .07 cents each.

Yesterday, 10:40 AM #16
603Country
Senior Member

Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 1,553 Since I don't have any 6mm Navy brass, I'm not able to form cases as FGuffey apparently does. I'm limited to fire forming and either neck sizing or partial resizing from there. In that specific rifle (my 220), I bought a neck die, but found over time that I got better accuracy with partial resizing, which works well with tapered cases.

Over 30 years with that rifle and two barrels and no case head separations. I assume that it boils down to the fact that I don't FL resize and set the shoulder back too far.

As for Wyoredman's question, if he's cut into cases and found no sign of case wall thinning at the base, I'd put it down to a little first firing case stretch. Tapered cases do tend to do that, which is why PO Ackley (as FGuffey mentioned) was always 'improving' cases and cartriges by reducing case body taper. Just neck size em from here and you should be fine, though occasionally, if you shoot em hot, you'll need to push that shoulder back a bit.

“Since I don't have any 6mm Navy brass, I'm not able to form cases as FGuffey apparently does” Again, I am a case former, I form cases, I do not form, load and shoot everything I form, more times than not I form to determine the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder/datum of the chamber, seems that part is ‘the mystery’, I am the fan of standards, transfers and verifying. Case formers are familiar with methods and or techniques for necking up cases ( Long before I had barrels chambered in 35 Whelen and or 338/06 I had the dies ) to establish a shoulder ahead of the shoulder on the case. If I was struggling with the length of the chamber from the shoulder back to the bolt face I would neck 10 220 Swift cases to .243/6mm or 6.5/264 (I would not choose 5 time fired cases). Agter necking the cases necks up I would then start sizing the necks down to create s shoulder, I would adjust the die off the shell holder .010” with a feeler gage leaf that was .010” thick, I would then secure the die to the press with the lock ring without allowing the die to turn. after forming the secondary shoulder I check the distance from the new shoulder to the head of the case with a home made datum to head of the case tool or a comparator.

if after establishing the ‘new shoulder’ the case does not chamber I would decrease the gap between the bottom of the die and shell holder, a good choice would be .007”, I would repeat the process until a case chambered. this method and or technique does not work for reloadrs that insist on using 5 time fired cases, like braking fingernails, they do not handle case neck splits very well.

What to do with the gap number as in the die off the shell holder on thousandths, contact Redding, order a shell holder or set or use the feeler gage to make the adjustment, start with new cases, I would, after firing apply the ‘leaver policy’.

I know, bench resters do it this way and or the other way, then there is the full length sizing every time crowd, then there is the bullet manufacturing methods and techniques, when duplicating their methods and techniques remove the stock on your rifle and clamp the barrel in a vise, leave the receiver just ‘hanging out’.

F. Guffey

February 22, 2013, 12:31 PM	#26
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Yesterday, 12:32 PM #20 Wyoredman Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 884 Guffey, Here is how I used my Hornady "comparator": Measured unfired, new factory case in the "comparator" installed on my caliper. Measured fired case the same way. Fired case is 0.003" longer to shoulder datum than it was before firing. Screwed FL die into press until it touched fired case, then began adjusting die down and measuring case length to shoulder datum with "comparator" until the case was 0.002" shorter. Set lock ring on die at this point. My question to you, as you seem to know these things, is how do I make a "chamber length gage"? Please be specific so as I can benefit from your knowledge. If I lived nearby, I would bring the rifle to you and you could explain it to me, but no such luck. Also, this still hasn't answered my original question about why this individual rifle is doing this to my brass! Are you suggesting that my chamber is oversized? I am a simple man and need simple, straight forward answers. Thanks. __________________ Go Pokes! Go Rams! Wyoredman, Thank you, “My question to you, as you seem to know these things, is how do I make a "chamber length gage"? Please be specific so as I can benefit from your knowledge. If I lived nearby, I would bring the rifle to you and you could explain it to me, but no such luck” Long before I had barrels chambered in 35 Whelen and or 338/06 I had the dies. Long before I had store bought cases like 8mm57, 7mm57, 7.7 Japanese, 6.5 257 Roberts etc. I had 30/06 cases and invested in forming dies. Today that is an expensive alternative, I could justify the expense because I paid .01 cent each for 30/06 cases, 20 cases for $1.00, and the more expensive pull down unfired cases from Pat’s for .07 cents each. Yesterday, 10:40 AM #16 603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 1,553 Since I don't have any 6mm Navy brass, I'm not able to form cases as FGuffey apparently does. I'm limited to fire forming and either neck sizing or partial resizing from there. In that specific rifle (my 220), I bought a neck die, but found over time that I got better accuracy with partial resizing, which works well with tapered cases. Over 30 years with that rifle and two barrels and no case head separations. I assume that it boils down to the fact that I don't FL resize and set the shoulder back too far. As for Wyoredman's question, if he's cut into cases and found no sign of case wall thinning at the base, I'd put it down to a little first firing case stretch. Tapered cases do tend to do that, which is why PO Ackley (as FGuffey mentioned) was always 'improving' cases and cartriges by reducing case body taper. Just neck size em from here and you should be fine, though occasionally, if you shoot em hot, you'll need to push that shoulder back a bit. “Since I don't have any 6mm Navy brass, I'm not able to form cases as FGuffey apparently does” Again, I am a case former, I form cases, I do not form, load and shoot everything I form, more times than not I form to determine the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder/datum of the chamber, seems that part is ‘the mystery’, I am the fan of standards, transfers and verifying. Case formers are familiar with methods and or techniques for necking up cases ( Long before I had barrels chambered in 35 Whelen and or 338/06 I had the dies ) to establish a shoulder ahead of the shoulder on the case. If I was struggling with the length of the chamber from the shoulder back to the bolt face I would neck 10 220 Swift cases to .243/6mm or 6.5/264 (I would not choose 5 time fired cases). Agter necking the cases necks up I would then start sizing the necks down to create s shoulder, I would adjust the die off the shell holder .010” with a feeler gage leaf that was .010” thick, I would then secure the die to the press with the lock ring without allowing the die to turn. after forming the secondary shoulder I check the distance from the new shoulder to the head of the case with a home made datum to head of the case tool or a comparator. if after establishing the ‘new shoulder’ the case does not chamber I would decrease the gap between the bottom of the die and shell holder, a good choice would be .007”, I would repeat the process until a case chambered. this method and or technique does not work for reloadrs that insist on using 5 time fired cases, like braking fingernails, they do not handle case neck splits very well. What to do with the gap number as in the die off the shell holder on thousandths, contact Redding, order a shell holder or set or use the feeler gage to make the adjustment, start with new cases, I would, after firing apply the ‘leaver policy’. I know, bench resters do it this way and or the other way, then there is the full length sizing every time crowd, then there is the bullet manufacturing methods and techniques, when duplicating their methods and techniques remove the stock on your rifle and clamp the barrel in a vise, leave the receiver just ‘hanging out’. F. Guffey