[Glenn E. Meyer]

Great discussion. IIRC, the data are clear that much violence against women occurs after the restraining order and the victim moves. They are not a pancea but do establish a clear legal trail if you need one.

A good point was brought up about cultural change vs. active self-defense. I just read a two issue series in the American Behavioral Scientist about school shootings. Kleck had a good article about how gun laws would be ineffective and it is delusional to think they would solve the problem.

However, many of the writers talked about changing our culture of violence so that we wouldn't produce such BGs. So that is a common thread. Change the culture and violence decreases.

In a sense, they are right about certain crimes and violence, esp. ones that flow from economic circumstances. But, the interpersonal ones probably aren't that easy to change even if you change what's on TV or limit guns.

The 'experts' don't talk about active self-defense. It is not in their mindset. They view it as fighting evil with evil and it is better for all evil to go away. But that won't work.