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Bart B. · April 25, 2013, 05:04 PM

Alabama, that's a good video. But only 5 shots.

I've put 5 consecutive shots with aperture sights inside 5 inches at 1000 yards twice, but no way would I ever claim either of those Palma rifles were that accurate. Both were more realistically .75 MOA dingers at that range but the smallest 15-shot group on paper shooting off my shoulder I've shot is about 1.7 MOA. Just like all those long range benchrest rifles holding records; 3/4 MOA systems that, once in a great while, put 5 shots into about 1 inch and everybody screams joyously that such accuracy was attained as it sets a new record. Then his next 5-shot groups about 6 inches and he and his stuff never ever shoots another one-incher for the life of the barrel. Such is the laws of statistics and averages.

For all readers,

Note the US Army Marksmanship Unit finally gave up getting their 5.56 NATO chambered match grade semiauto service rifles on AR type platforms to shoot as well in the 1000 yard matches at the Nationals as folks using 7.62 Garands or M1A's. The 7.62 round had been producing better scores than any 5.56 NATO chambered mouse gun for a long time. They didn't have any more good M14NM's that would have done as well; that program shut down a long time ago.

So the US Army was able to convince the NRA to change the rules for what constitutes a "service rifle" and now an AR10 is legal in long range NRA matches They rebuilt some AR10's and shot Berger 185 VLD's in really hot loads (tossed the cases, not safe for reloading) and set a Service Rifle Team record at 1000 yards at last year's Nationals. But their scores were still not quite as good as the bolt guns shooting the same cartridge at long range.

Regarding the accuracy level one needs for long range accuracy, the more accurate your rifle will shoot good ammo, the better you'll score; targets or game. Shoulder fired rifles end up adding at least 1 MOA to the accuracy inheirant to the rifle and ammo. Nobody holds them perfectly still nor exactly the same for each shot.

April 25, 2013, 05:04 PM	#37
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Alabama, that's a good video. But only 5 shots. I've put 5 consecutive shots with aperture sights inside 5 inches at 1000 yards twice, but no way would I ever claim either of those Palma rifles were that accurate. Both were more realistically .75 MOA dingers at that range but the smallest 15-shot group on paper shooting off my shoulder I've shot is about 1.7 MOA. Just like all those long range benchrest rifles holding records; 3/4 MOA systems that, once in a great while, put 5 shots into about 1 inch and everybody screams joyously that such accuracy was attained as it sets a new record. Then his next 5-shot groups about 6 inches and he and his stuff never ever shoots another one-incher for the life of the barrel. Such is the laws of statistics and averages. For all readers, Note the US Army Marksmanship Unit finally gave up getting their 5.56 NATO chambered match grade semiauto service rifles on AR type platforms to shoot as well in the 1000 yard matches at the Nationals as folks using 7.62 Garands or M1A's. The 7.62 round had been producing better scores than any 5.56 NATO chambered mouse gun for a long time. They didn't have any more good M14NM's that would have done as well; that program shut down a long time ago. So the US Army was able to convince the NRA to change the rules for what constitutes a "service rifle" and now an AR10 is legal in long range NRA matches They rebuilt some AR10's and shot Berger 185 VLD's in really hot loads (tossed the cases, not safe for reloading) and set a Service Rifle Team record at 1000 yards at last year's Nationals. But their scores were still not quite as good as the bolt guns shooting the same cartridge at long range. Regarding the accuracy level one needs for long range accuracy, the more accurate your rifle will shoot good ammo, the better you'll score; targets or game. Shoulder fired rifles end up adding at least 1 MOA to the accuracy inheirant to the rifle and ammo. Nobody holds them perfectly still nor exactly the same for each shot.