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Ticonderoga · December 23, 2010, 01:12 PM

I am in the market for a new gun and saw that an Ed Brown model had the features I was looking for. I did a Google search for his name and the product and saw this string on the 2nd published Google page.

I read quite a few posts on this string that, well frankly, they surprised me.

I was going to take exception with Don H's comments, but as I've thought about it a bit more, he is right; we should hear both sides of the story. And as far as the original poster, he didn't stick around to be a "member" of this board so perhaps, Don's comment that he signed up only to bash, maybe it has some merit.

The reason Ed Brown is losing my business and why I'll likely buy a Kimber instead is this, why hasn't he done anything to fix this problem? When I say "fix," I don't necessarily mean a refund. I mean, has he posted a response here or anywhere else? How does he not know about this string, it's on page 2 of Google. I wonder how many dozens of customers have blown off his company after reading Ranger55's comments?

Whether Ranger55's complaint is even valid or not, it shows a lack of care of reputation that someone from Ed Brown's company couldn't at least make an appearance here. Perhaps he doesn't even know about this string? If he doesn't, shame on him.

Once when driving in the mountains above Los Angeles, I passed a home with a huge, "Subaru screwed me, don't buy a Subaru." Below it was a phone # and when I called on my cellular, I listed to a tape recorded message, about 7 minutes long explaining how his car was a lemon. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Subaru must have heard about this sign, it was in all the newspapers. That they chose to ignore it tells me they don't care about their reputation.

I once had a cellular phone with Sprint in the late 90's. A call to customer service might take 45 minutes. From then on I swore I'd never do business with a company that can't answer their phone. I wonder if the president of Sprint ever called his own customer service # to find out the hold time. I doubt it. That shows a lack of concern for his customer and I see Ed Brown as no different.

At the Cabella website there is a review for the Winchester Mod 70 Safari .375 H&H. The reviewer gives it one star for five and pretty much bashes the entire Winchester manufacturing process, quality control and customer service department. That Winchester has not addressed this issue concerns me and makes me NOT want to buy a Winchester. However, the Winchester rifle is 1/4 the cost of the Ed Brown. For four thousand dollars, I'd expect that the link on the website would match the product.

Quite a few of you bash Ranger55 because he didn't read the "fine print." Suppose you go to Walmart and you read the advertisement that says Centrum Vitamins 250 count per bottle, you buy the bottle, get home, open it and find that its only 100 vitamins. You look on the bottle, sure enough, it says 100 vitamins. Well, you bought the bottle. Should you be stuck? I don't think so. The sign says 250 count & that's false advertising. Ed Brown's website was wrong and that makes it HIS error. That the customer missed it doesn't make him liable, especially after talking about a hunting trip to Africa.

Quite a few of you post that the buyer should have taken more care to read the fine print, that this barrel abbreviation means this and that. Well, sure, if he was at Walmart, Big Five or Bass Pro Shops. But when you're dropping $4k, you EXPECT that the sales person will guide you the right way. That's customer service. That the website was mislabeled is the same as the sign having the wrong price or the wrong item count at Walmart. Anything mispriced in most grocery stores and you get a discount or the item for free. Sure a gun costs more but a $4k gun has a much greater profit margin than a bottle of vitamins.

Why should Ed Brown's company be excused for negligence on his website? If you're savvy enough to put a page on the net offering business, its your commercial responsibility to make sure that every page is accurate. Just like the Sprint president who likely never called customer service, Ed Brown probably does not visit his own website. Shame on him and shame on his company. That's just sloppy and if they can screw that up, certainly they can screw up a gun. And we've heard, at least one account, of how they handle screw ups at their company.

I've been working outside the US for the past 5 years. I've got about 66 countries traveled under my belt and let me tell you, we are getting our *sses kicked by the Indians and Chinese daily. I do not fly any American air carriers any more. I'm trying to buy an American gun and am happy to find quality products - it looks like we have the gun market cornered. For now. The American air carriers are all crap. Turkish airlines economy class is as good as Continental business class. My point is this: so many on this board are bashing Ranger55, as though he were some hoity toity rich guy who's spoiled rotten and demands carte blanche service. Well, he should. We all should. We should EXPECT decent customer service. What is the difference between a rude manager at Ed Brown and having your Microsoft customer service call routed to Pakistan? Either should be unnacceptable. Perhaps when we start demanding better service we'll get it.

I'll vote with my wallet, maybe Ed Brown will hear that.

I suppose the reason I wrote this rant was that a few comments that I read here seemed so far off base that I wanted to comment on them directly.

Wild Alaska writes:

So let me understand, you bought a gun out of stock without checking the specs and are upset because they wouldnt take it back?

WildAlaska, let me pose this question to you: You go into a restaurant and the nice waitress chats you up for about 10 minutes. You mention to her your allergy of mushrooms and the two of you chat about it. Then, before you open the menu you ask if she has a recommendation (she is the expert) and she says that the meat-lovers is on sale and its really good. So you order it and it comes out with mushrooms on it. You complain and she says "tough luck," its listed on the menu, you should have read the menu.

True enough, shame on you you didn't read the menu. Shame on Ranger55, he didn't read the menu. You think that restaurant will stay in business? I don't think so either.

PT111 writes:

Ranger 55, I have no idea who you are or what kind of person you are and am not judging you but you sure come across in your first post as a spoiled brat.

Really? Wow, that seems a little harsh. I can only imagine what you would do in the pizza example above. I'd bet that you would be the town crier who would tell everyone about the rude service you received at the pizzeria. Or is it that you're jealous of Ranger55's (suggested) income based on some heavy purchases. Either way, bad form. Bad form.

And again you (PT111) wrote:

If you can afford to spend $4,000 on a gun sighf [sic] unseen or not being absolutely sure what you are getting, and I again refer to the original posters comments about confusion on the website, then more power to you. The only people I know of that spend that kind of money for something they don't know what they are getting are those that really don't know what a gun is supposed to weigh and sure wouldn't get on the Internet complaining about it. They would either fly out to Ed Brown's place and show him what he could do wiht [sic] his rifle or have his lawyers do it if they thought they needed to.

This paragraph does reveal a lot; it says that you are envious that someone can drop $4k or $8k on a gun. But what is most telling is your comment that someone who could afford to buy that gun would fly out to see Ed Brown himself. I think you are saying that if you could afford that gun, you would fly out. The fact that you would fly out, when you could just do it over the net says a lot about how you (would) handle your finances: unwisely. This is probably why you will never have that kind of money. 95% of lotto winners are broke in 10 years - you fit right into this category.

Muskateer writes:

Reputations are earned, not given. Ed Brown has one, the OP doesn't. It would help if some others with a history around here encompassing more posts than I can count on one hand would corroborate this story or have equally distressing ones.

Well, Ed's had 2 years to rebutt this thread and he 1. Doesn't know about it (shame on him), 2. Doesn't care (shame on him), or 3. Doesn't know how to use a computer but maintains a website (shame on him).

I was about to comment on Squarepants post - based on his opening two paragraphs - but after reading his entire post I can say that he is both witty and seems above par in the area of intellectual capacity.

LanceOregon writes:

Well, all I can say is that it takes two people in order to miscommunicate. I think that there is partial blame here for both you and the staff at Ed Brown.

Going back to my pizza analogy, say you go to the toilet, come back and find the pizza with mushrooms. Your wife accepted it and one of your kids took a bite. Does that mean you're now "stuck" with said pizza?

The website is wrong, that's the same as gas listed at $1.99 a gallon and after you pump you find out it was $2.99. Do you get a refund, you bet you do. Will Ed eat a little profit on this gun? Surely. In the grand scheme of the COST of his guns it is no different than Burger King taking back a Whopper, Coke and fries because you ordered it with no pickles.

Hawg Haggen - I can only imagine you with the mushroom pizza. Why do I get the feeling that you would argue the waitress and manager under the table. I'd laugh when your twin popped out of the next stall and read off the menu, in great detail (as you've done with the website) and grilled you on how you "missed" the fact that the special pizza has mushrooms.

Well, I've enjoyed reading all your posts, the good and the bad and maybe I'll post a little more often when I drop by.

December 23, 2010, 01:12 PM	#42
Ticonderoga Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Posts: 48	Ed Brown lost my business I am in the market for a new gun and saw that an Ed Brown model had the features I was looking for. I did a Google search for his name and the product and saw this string on the 2nd published Google page. I read quite a few posts on this string that, well frankly, they surprised me. I was going to take exception with Don H's comments, but as I've thought about it a bit more, he is right; we should hear both sides of the story. And as far as the original poster, he didn't stick around to be a "member" of this board so perhaps, Don's comment that he signed up only to bash, maybe it has some merit. The reason Ed Brown is losing my business and why I'll likely buy a Kimber instead is this, why hasn't he done anything to fix this problem? When I say "fix," I don't necessarily mean a refund. I mean, has he posted a response here or anywhere else? How does he not know about this string, it's on page 2 of Google. I wonder how many dozens of customers have blown off his company after reading Ranger55's comments? Whether Ranger55's complaint is even valid or not, it shows a lack of care of reputation that someone from Ed Brown's company couldn't at least make an appearance here. Perhaps he doesn't even know about this string? If he doesn't, shame on him. Once when driving in the mountains above Los Angeles, I passed a home with a huge, "Subaru screwed me, don't buy a Subaru." Below it was a phone # and when I called on my cellular, I listed to a tape recorded message, about 7 minutes long explaining how his car was a lemon. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Subaru must have heard about this sign, it was in all the newspapers. That they chose to ignore it tells me they don't care about their reputation. I once had a cellular phone with Sprint in the late 90's. A call to customer service might take 45 minutes. From then on I swore I'd never do business with a company that can't answer their phone. I wonder if the president of Sprint ever called his own customer service # to find out the hold time. I doubt it. That shows a lack of concern for his customer and I see Ed Brown as no different. At the Cabella website there is a review for the Winchester Mod 70 Safari .375 H&H. The reviewer gives it one star for five and pretty much bashes the entire Winchester manufacturing process, quality control and customer service department. That Winchester has not addressed this issue concerns me and makes me NOT want to buy a Winchester. However, the Winchester rifle is 1/4 the cost of the Ed Brown. For four thousand dollars, I'd expect that the link on the website would match the product. Quite a few of you bash Ranger55 because he didn't read the "fine print." Suppose you go to Walmart and you read the advertisement that says Centrum Vitamins 250 count per bottle, you buy the bottle, get home, open it and find that its only 100 vitamins. You look on the bottle, sure enough, it says 100 vitamins. Well, you bought the bottle. Should you be stuck? I don't think so. The sign says 250 count & that's false advertising. Ed Brown's website was wrong and that makes it HIS error. That the customer missed it doesn't make him liable, especially after talking about a hunting trip to Africa. Quite a few of you post that the buyer should have taken more care to read the fine print, that this barrel abbreviation means this and that. Well, sure, if he was at Walmart, Big Five or Bass Pro Shops. But when you're dropping $4k, you EXPECT that the sales person will guide you the right way. That's customer service. That the website was mislabeled is the same as the sign having the wrong price or the wrong item count at Walmart. Anything mispriced in most grocery stores and you get a discount or the item for free. Sure a gun costs more but a $4k gun has a much greater profit margin than a bottle of vitamins. Why should Ed Brown's company be excused for negligence on his website? If you're savvy enough to put a page on the net offering business, its your commercial responsibility to make sure that every page is accurate. Just like the Sprint president who likely never called customer service, Ed Brown probably does not visit his own website. Shame on him and shame on his company. That's just sloppy and if they can screw that up, certainly they can screw up a gun. And we've heard, at least one account, of how they handle screw ups at their company. I've been working outside the US for the past 5 years. I've got about 66 countries traveled under my belt and let me tell you, we are getting our sses kicked by the Indians and Chinese daily. I do not fly any American air carriers any more. I'm trying to buy an American gun and am happy to find quality products - it looks like we have the gun market cornered. For now. The American air carriers are all crap. Turkish airlines economy class is as good as Continental business class. My point is this: so many on this board are bashing Ranger55, as though he were some hoity toity rich guy who's spoiled rotten and demands carte blanche service. Well, he should. We all should. We should EXPECT decent customer service. What is the difference between a rude manager at Ed Brown and having your Microsoft customer service call routed to Pakistan? Either should be unnacceptable. Perhaps when we start demanding better service we'll get it. I'll vote with my wallet, maybe Ed Brown will hear that. I suppose the reason I wrote this rant was that a few comments that I read here seemed so far off base that I wanted to comment on them directly. Wild Alaska writes: So let me understand, you bought a gun out of stock without checking the specs and are upset because they wouldnt take it back?* WildAlaska, let me pose this question to you: You go into a restaurant and the nice waitress chats you up for about 10 minutes. You mention to her your allergy of mushrooms and the two of you chat about it. Then, before you open the menu you ask if she has a recommendation (she is the expert) and she says that the meat-lovers is on sale and its really good. So you order it and it comes out with mushrooms on it. You complain and she says "tough luck," its listed on the menu, you should have read the menu. True enough, shame on you you didn't read the menu. Shame on Ranger55, he didn't read the menu. You think that restaurant will stay in business? I don't think so either. PT111 writes: Ranger 55, I have no idea who you are or what kind of person you are and am not judging you but you sure come across in your first post as a spoiled brat. Really? Wow, that seems a little harsh. I can only imagine what you would do in the pizza example above. I'd bet that you would be the town crier who would tell everyone about the rude service you received at the pizzeria. Or is it that you're jealous of Ranger55's (suggested) income based on some heavy purchases. Either way, bad form. Bad form. And again you (PT111) wrote: If you can afford to spend $4,000 on a gun sighf [sic] unseen or not being absolutely sure what you are getting, and I again refer to the original posters comments about confusion on the website, then more power to you. The only people I know of that spend that kind of money for something they don't know what they are getting are those that really don't know what a gun is supposed to weigh and sure wouldn't get on the Internet complaining about it. They would either fly out to Ed Brown's place and show him what he could do wiht [sic] his rifle or have his lawyers do it if they thought they needed to. This paragraph does reveal a lot; it says that you are envious that someone can drop $4k or $8k on a gun. But what is most telling is your comment that someone who could afford to buy that gun would fly out to see Ed Brown himself. I think you are saying that if you could afford that gun, you would fly out. The fact that you would fly out, when you could just do it over the net says a lot about how you (would) handle your finances: unwisely. This is probably why you will never have that kind of money. 95% of lotto winners are broke in 10 years - you fit right into this category. Muskateer writes: Reputations are earned, not given. Ed Brown has one, the OP doesn't. It would help if some others with a history around here encompassing more posts than I can count on one hand would corroborate this story or have equally distressing ones. Well, Ed's had 2 years to rebutt this thread and he 1. Doesn't know about it (shame on him), 2. Doesn't care (shame on him), or 3. Doesn't know how to use a computer but maintains a website (shame on him). I was about to comment on Squarepants post - based on his opening two paragraphs - but after reading his entire post I can say that he is both witty and seems above par in the area of intellectual capacity. LanceOregon writes: Well, all I can say is that it takes two people in order to miscommunicate. I think that there is partial blame here for both you and the staff at Ed Brown. Going back to my pizza analogy, say you go to the toilet, come back and find the pizza with mushrooms. Your wife accepted it and one of your kids took a bite. Does that mean you're now "stuck" with said pizza? The website is wrong, that's the same as gas listed at $1.99 a gallon and after you pump you find out it was $2.99. Do you get a refund, you bet you do. Will Ed eat a little profit on this gun? Surely. In the grand scheme of the COST of his guns it is no different than Burger King taking back a Whopper, Coke and fries because you ordered it with no pickles. Hawg Haggen - I can only imagine you with the mushroom pizza. Why do I get the feeling that you would argue the waitress and manager under the table. I'd laugh when your twin popped out of the next stall and read off the menu, in great detail (as you've done with the website) and grilled you on how you "missed" the fact that the special pizza has mushrooms. Well, I've enjoyed reading all your posts, the good and the bad and maybe I'll post a little more often when I drop by.