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Old February 13, 2011, 10:56 AM   #11
Unclenick
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Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 21,060
Junkman01,

Note that because QuickLOAD was developed in Germany, the default maximums are CIP rather than SAAMI specs except where (SAAMI) appears in parentheses or U.S. Military specs. That's how the .30 Carbine has a nice even 3200 bar or 320 MPa maximum pressure in QuickLOAD (depending which units you chose) and has all those odd trailing digits. SAAMI specs for Maximumum Average Pressure (MAP) are always rounded to the nearest 500 psi.

Note that the military and the CIP both reported copper crusher results as PSI up into the mid-90's, rather than segregating them into CUP and PSI as SAAMI did. This causes a lot of confusion. Many people still believe commercial .308 is hotter than military 7.62 because of that, when they are actually the same if measured in the same test apparatus.

In the case of the .30 Carbine, it's pressures run in the range over which copper crushers sometimes report close to or even higher results than Piezo transducers do, give or take 2,000 to 5,000 thousand PSI. This is an artifact of the measuring systems having an irregular relationship such that math conversions from one to the other cannot be relied on not to change the real pressure limits. Fortunately for us, guns are pretty tough and tend to withstand the irregularities.


.30 Carbine Maximum Average Pressure (peak)

CIP MAP = 320 MPa = 46,212 PSI
SAAMI MAPs = 40,000 PSI and 40,000 CUP (old)
Military MAP = 40,000 PSI (actually CUP reported as PSI)
Military Proof Load (Blue Pill) = 47,500 PSI (actually CUP reported as PSI)


The CIP spec used to match the military spec pretty well when the CIP still used copper crushers, too. At that time it was 280 MPa or about 40,600 PSI. If I do my own trend analysis of MAPs, the expected change would have been to about 43,000 PSI or 295 MPa (2950 bar) going from crusher to Piezo transducer, but CIP typically just uses a fixed multiplier in switching from copper crushers to Piezo transducer numbers, and that's not always realistic. There's just too much noise in the relationship. For that reason I tend to trust the SAAMI numbers more. There are other complications in that the CIP Piezo transducer ports aren't located in the same position as SAAMI test devices are. This can fudge the numbers another couple thousand PSI.

Unfortunately, only measuring military reference loads designed to produce the exact correct MAP, and doing it with both SAAMI and CIP Piezo pressure test rigs could resolve this. I wish I had the gear available, but don't.

I expect that makes it all as clear as mud. Here's a place with some SAAMI and CIP pressures listed, though the CIP numbers are rounded PSI numbers in this table.
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Last edited by Unclenick; February 13, 2011 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Added link
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