Thread: Mindset
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Old August 19, 2013, 09:08 AM   #128
OldMarksman
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Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 4,022
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Posted by daddyo: The reason "cornered cat" is such a good choice is because everyone knows that a cornered cat becomes extremely violent.
Well, that's part of it.

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So I would think that most folks when asked would indeed see it that way.
What most people understand is that if they try to pick up a frigthend kitten who has nowhere to go they will end up with a scratch or a bite, and that a dog who molests a cornered cat risks injury, and that that's as far as it will go. Dogs learn that quickly, too.

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Same goes for the female lion defending her cub.
I don't know enough about that to comment.

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And I am not predisposed to animalistic behavior yet I am judged by the words I write here.
What is more important is that your students may be seriously harmed by what you have told them.

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You have spoken about the benefit of avoiding certain words for fear of harm in court. This IMO suggests that you are indeed hiding your normal feelings. You are a trained deceiver.
You have absolutely no basis for that comment.

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Can your testimony be believed?
The open question is will it be believed.

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If you are avoiding the use of certain provocative words then you must be substituting them with defensive minded words.
I do not understand what you are trying to say.

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My course suggests that once justified a defender should apply as much force as possible until the threat is no longer a threat. Like a light switch the defender should be prepared to use as much force as possible when the switch is flipped on (imminent threat of DOGBI) and stop when the threat has ended (switch off).
That may be your intent, but others may well decide that your use of the phrase "go animal" means something else.

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I was offended that my words, go animal, would be used by you guys to in effect suggest that I have a predisposition toward violence. Nothing could be further from the truth with me as well.
It is completely irrelevant what the words suggest about you. What counts is how they may be used against one of your students in a trial involving a defense of justification.

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After all you are suggesting that I refrain from using certain words which I feel properly describe the mindset needed to survive a violent encounter.
Yes, because there is also the little matter of surviving the aftermath.

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In essence you are teaching me and many others to be deceptive.
Not unless your true mindset is one that would get you into trouble.

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If my go animal can be used against me, why then can't your deception be used against you?
What deception, pray?

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I'm being told to be a cornered cat..........extremely violent animal..........but not to say go animal......which certainly could be a cornered cat
You are indeed.

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It sure seems that this issue, bred from the don't sound like a bad guy or killer line of thinking, has been taken to a micromanaged extreme.
Imagine--just imagine--a prosecutor repeating the words "go animal" over and over.

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It is the same mindset. When you tell an otherwise peaceful law abiding civilian to become a cornered cat in essence you are telling them to become a violent less than human animal. The same thing I suggested. The hang up is the nitpicking over the fact that the cornered cat will stop when the danger is over and the perception that the civilian gone animal won't.
That "nitpicking" pertains to one of the most important factors in the justification of the use of force, deadly or non-deadly.

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I clearly posted the return to normalcy once the threat has ended. Should my post be used against me anyone with half a brain would clearly see that it was nothing more than a temporary mindset used to help survive a violent attack.
Are you suggesting that a prosecutor would explain all of that?

Do you believe that one who has "gone animal" would be expected by the triers of fact to have had the mental and emotional capacity to make the change instantly?

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You guys compare it to someone using excessive force or suggest that my "go animal" somehow would make a juror confused on whether I used to much force even though I clearly list "keep your head" next to describe the necessity to returning to normal demeanor once the threat is over.
After the damage has been done...

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Again clearly a temporarily necessary state of mind to help fight off a violent deadly threat.
What is a 'temporarily necessary state of mind"?

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Likewise you on one hand desire to be believed but on the other hand write things down on how to be deceptive.
What?

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If I were a prosecutor tasked with your prosecution, I would indeed use these lessons as ammunition to show your trained deceptive mindset.
You would fail.

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BTW I write to go animal and then keep your head and come back to normal. That is exactly the same thing a cornered cat, your approved description, does. That's how silly this debate has become.
Unfortunately, many people--most, I think--would not see it that way.

If anyone I know ever tells me that he or she has been advised to "go animal" in a self defense training course, I will tell them to walk away immediately and to not return.

Last edited by OldMarksman; August 19, 2013 at 10:30 AM. Reason: Sp.
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