[taylorce1]

Leave it to the guys from MS and VT to harp the loudest about hunting elk.

My that statement, you'd be hunting elk with a .223 because it will definately penetrate to the vitals. No, hydrostatic shock is an inportant part of the killing process.

Hydrostatic shock is a byproduct and not a necessary to ensure a kill. If hydrostatic shock was that important then people wouldn't still be using archery equipment to hunt with. FYI any center fire cartridge is legal in the OP's state, so I'm sure some elk have been taken with a .223. I'd never recommend a .223 for elk, just like I'd not recommend a Grendel either. There are better choices than either of those cartridges but that doesn't mean they won't work if the right shots are taken, the problem with elk is that the right shots rarely present themselves.

see that it what is great about my "so called" silly over concervative estimates.

Your conservative estimates border on ridiculousness plain and simple, and show a lack of experience with any of the cartridges you talk about. Putting in for the lottery is different than actually hunting the game we're talking about. Plus a 140 grain bullet @ 2600fps out of your Swede isn't going to kill a moose or elk any better than a 120 grain bullet @ 2600 fps out of the OP's Grendel inside of 300 yards.

muzzleloader and shotguns using sabot slugs can have close to 2000lb of presure at close ranges.

Okay, so if I don't understand you. Then explain what you're talking about when you mention lbs of pressure? To me it sounds like you're talking about energy at point of impact, and as mentioned in earlier posts you won't achieve that kind of pressure you're talking about. Ft - lbs and PSI aren't even close to the same thing like you have stated, here is a simple calculator to help you.