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Old December 10, 2014, 06:16 PM   #98
tepin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 129
As others have said, two-feet is too close.

If you don't know about the Tueller Drill, you can find it HERE. The drill, performed by Tueller, discovered that it only takes 1.5 seconds for a person to cross a distance of 21 feet and stab you, and that it also takes 1.5 seconds to draw and fire a gun from an exposed holster. This would suggest that you have to react to a threat well beyond 21 feet. I would consider someone to have "Opportunity" if they were any closer than 42 feet (~3 seconds away), simply based on reactionary gap (action beats reaction). We all have OODA loops, even the perp. The added distance will give him time to recognize he is about to be shot then decide whether or not he wants to continue the assault.

In court we are judged by the "reasonable and prudent person" standard (a hypothetical person that exercises average care, skill, and judgment in conduct). What is considered to be "reasonable" stems from a persons experience and formal / informal training. The reason training, reading court cases, self-defense books, news articles, etc... is so important is because the more you know AT THE TIME OF THE ATTACK, the better you'll be able to defend yourself in court should you be prosecuted. The trick for the private citizen is being able to PROVE that you possessed certain knowledge at the time of the attack. Example: In New York, People v. Magliato, judge Thomas Sullivan would not allow expert testimony on the Tueller Drill because Magliato had no prior knowledge of the Tueller Drill at the time of the attack. Magliato was found guilty.

Last year I attended the MAG20 class as offered by the Massad Ayoob Group (highly recommended) and learned how to properly document training. Essentially, when you take classroom training, take a lot of notes. After class, research your notes and fill in the blanks so that partial thoughts become complete concepts. Print news articles and court cases for out-of-the-ordinary events: Disparity of force cases, being hit with shod foot or fist rising to the level of great bodily harm and reports/cases where complying with the demands of a criminal can still get you killed. Compile a list of the books you have purchased and read. Package up all this information and mail it to yourself USPS registered and certified (Ayoob suggests multiple packages kept in multiple locations). Should you ever need to "authenticate" your training and the knowledge that you had at the time of the shooting, the package is to be examined and opened "in the well of the court".

Its often asked, "when can I draw and or fire my gun?" - In class Ayoob presented something that nicely aligned the color-codes of awareness and levels of proof to help in the decision-making process.....

Levels of Proof (low to high)
  1. Mere suspicion (MS): Beliefs are unfounded. You are making a wild-ass-guess.
  2. Articulable suspicion (AS): (if you cannot explain it, don't do it!).
  3. Probable cause (PC): Grey area between suspicion and proof. Can be less than 50% certainty.
  4. Preponderance of the evidence (POE): Gray area between suspicion and proof but with greater than 50% certainty.
  5. Beyond a reasonable doubt (BARD): 95% to 99.9% certainty.

Color Codes of Awareness
  • White: You are not aware of your surroundings
  • Yellow: You are aware of your surroundings (relaxed awareness)
  • Orange: Unspecified alert. Danger exists but not yet known. Look for the "target stare", whats in peoples hands.
  • Red: Threat has identified itself (fight or flight). Will experience high level of body alarm response.
  • Black: The lethal assault is underway and someone is trying to kill you.

When can you draw your firearm and or shoot someone?
  1. Mere Suspicion and condition WHITE: Never draw gun.
  2. Articulable Suspicion and condition YELLOW: Never draw gun.
  3. Probable Cause and condition ORANGE: Never draw gun.
  4. Preponderance of the Evidence and condition RED: Take at gunpoint.
  5. Beyond a Reasonable Doubt and condition BLACK: Fire your gun.
Note: If you are holding someone at gunpoint and they continue their advance, a reasonable person should conclude that the perp believes that they have the skill to take your gun away from you and use it on you.

Criminals are experts at reading body language. They have to be because selecting the wrong "victim" can mean injury or death. So, it doesn't surprise me when I read about potential victims reaching for the 4-oclock position, unarmed, in a attempt to deter a possible assault. Happened to me once, early morning while taking out the trash. I was being "interviewed" by two males as they stepped off the alley onto my driveway, "hey what's in the can?" and while I was backing-up, slid my hand into my front pocked and replied, "why don't you take a look." - The "mouth" raised his hands with a smile and laugh like it was all a big joke and they corrected course and kept walking.

Few months ago on a Sunday morning at about 4:50AM I was stopped at a red light waiting to turn left and noted a car opposite me waiting to turn right and travel in my same direction. They rode my bumper for a 1/4 mile and so I sped up to ~50MPH in a 45. They dropped back about 8 to 10 seconds. I drove another 1.5 miles turning into a gas station (that I discovered was closed), pulled up to a pump, turned the SUV off and was about to open my door when out of the corner of my eye I caught motion.. the car that had been following me rolled into the parking lot, did a wide turn and parked next to the building, crossing 5 or 6 parking spots, facing me with the lights on about ~40 feet away. I couldn't see into their car because they left their lights on and I was parked under more lights so they could clearly see me. We watched each other for about three seconds and that's how long it took me to realize that something bad was likely to happen. I did the long-reach over to the glove box, pulled out my Glock and un-holstered it. In the amount of time it took to retrieve my gun, the person or persons in the other vehicle came to the conclusion that they selected the wrong victim (by my furtive movement). They slowly rolled out of the parking lot, stopped about 150-200 yards down the road for about 5 to 10 seconds then left. A few seconds after they were gone, another car rolled into the lot whom I recognized as an employee. This episode is the closest I have come to actually knowing with a high degree of certainty that I was in danger. Still bugs me.

Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy and Preclusion (AOJ-P)

Ability to cause great bodily harm (GBH)
  • Gun
  • Contact weapon (knife, bat, pipe, screwdriver, camera tripod, Taser)
  • Disparity of Force
    • Male attacking female
    • Multiple attackers (force in numbers)
    • Larger and stronger versus a smaller and weaker person
    • Young versus the elderly
    • Able-bodied versus the disabled
    • Medical condition of the victim (on blood thinners, back surgery, asthma, physical fitness, etc...)
    • Skilled versus unskilled fighter (training in the destructive arts - must be known to the victim at the time of the attack.)
    • Reputation of the attacker (must be known to the victim at the time of the attack)
Opportunity to utilize their "Ability" to cause GBH
  • Distance (time and obstacles)
  • Opportunity nearly always exists with firearms
  • More of a consideration with contact weapons
  • Tueller Drill
Jeopardy
  • The persons actions and or words would suggest that the threat is real (as opposed to imagined) and the threat of GBH is immediate
Preclusion
  • A consideration placed upon the victim
  • The victim did nothing to escalate the altercation
  • The victim is innocent of any wrongdoing
  • The victim did everything that could have reasonably been done to avoid using deadly force
__________________
"Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife." by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. in Brown v. United States, 256 U.S. 335, 343 (16 May 1921).
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